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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 4471137 times)

nenjin

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Russia scandal evolution edition
« Reply #3600 on: March 16, 2017, 10:09:20 pm »

What's Ivanka these days? Secretary of State? Treasury?
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Neonivek

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Russia scandal evolution edition
« Reply #3601 on: March 16, 2017, 10:12:09 pm »

Anyhow remember that Trump giving money to the rich actually gives money to everyone else.

You see, the more money you give to rich people. The more they tinkle it down on other people.

After people are showered by the tinkle effect they are happier more productive people and thus make more money for rich people...

Who then tinkle more and more and more.

That is Trump's economic policy.
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Wolfhunter107

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Russia scandal evolution edition
« Reply #3602 on: March 16, 2017, 10:27:11 pm »

Anyhow remember that Trump giving money to the rich actually gives money to everyone else.

You see, the more money you give to rich people. The more they tinkle it down on other people.

After people are showered by the tinkle effect they are happier more productive people and thus make more money for rich people...

Who then tinkle more and more and more.

That is Trump's economic policy.

One could almost call it...  a golden shower.
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Egan_BW

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Russia scandal evolution edition
« Reply #3603 on: March 16, 2017, 10:50:24 pm »

That is a wonderful new interpretation of trickle-down economics.
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Starver

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Russia scandal evolution edition
« Reply #3604 on: March 16, 2017, 11:46:21 pm »

What's Ivanka these days? Secretary of State? Treasury?
Probably the National Security Adviser...
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EnigmaticHat

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Russia scandal evolution edition
« Reply #3606 on: March 16, 2017, 11:58:54 pm »

That opens to business insider and immediately crashes.

Can anyone else get it?
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Lord Shonus

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Russia scandal evolution edition
« Reply #3607 on: March 16, 2017, 11:59:59 pm »

That opens to business insider and immediately crashes.

Can anyone else get it?
Quote
Retired Gen. Michael Flynn was paid $11,250 by Russia's top cybersecurity firm, Kaspersky, in 2015, according to new documents obtained and published by the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform on Thursday. Flynn was also paid $11,250 by the Russian charter cargo airline Volga-Dnepr Airlines, according to the documents.

Flynn was paid for his work with both companies while he still had top-secret-level security clearance, a year after he was fired as head of the Defense Intelligence Agency, The Wall Street Journal's Shane Harris reported.

Kaspersky said in a statement provided to Business Insider that the company had "paid Gen. Flynn a speaker fee for remarks at the 2015 Government Cybersecurity Forum in Washington, DC."

Another keynote speaker, Rep. Michael McCaul, was not paid by Kaspersky to speak at the event, his representative confirmed to Business Insider on Thursday. Kaspersky said that was because Flynn was a member of a speakers bureau that required a speaking fee, whereas McCaul was not.

Chris Haddad, another keynote speaker at the forum, told Business Insider he can't remember if Kaspersky paid him to speak at the event.

Flynn — who was forced to resign as national security adviser in early February after he misled Vice President Mike Pence about his phone calls with the Russian ambassador to the US, Sergey Kislyak — was also paid $33,750 to speak at a gala celebrating the 10th anniversary of Russia's state-sponsored news agency, Russia Today, in December 2015.

Quoted the first few paragraphs.
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palsch

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Russia scandal evolution edition
« Reply #3608 on: March 17, 2017, 04:55:57 am »

Yeag, if you had a law that said all elections were on Sunday, that could in fact be thrown out because it affects Christians who observe Sundays. The law doesn't need to specifically mention the religious group who is negatively affected to be unconstitutional.

It's a little more complex than that.

The traditional test is the Lemon Test, which states a law must meet three prongs to not run afoul of the Establishment clause;

Quote
The statute must have a secular legislative purpose. (Also known as the Purpose Prong)
The principal or primary effect of the statute must not advance nor inhibit religion. (Also known as the Effect Prong)
The statute must not result in an "excessive government entanglement" with religion. (Also known as the Entanglement Prong)

You can make arguments here against both the purpose and effect prong. The effect of a ban that targets specifically Muslim majority countries can be seen to have as it's main effect an inhibiting of religion, by preventing the movement or immigration of Muslims. This is a fairly hard case to make though.

What we have instead is judges finding that there is no legitimate secular purpose to the law. This is completely extraordinary.

Remember that it isn't saying the intended purpose isn't legitimate, it's saying there is no legitimate purpose for this law (or, at the least, none put to the court by the defence or any amicus brief filed; expect dozens of such briefs ahead of any appeals). They hold that the administration's claim that the law has a national security purpose is absolute hogswash and there is no other purpose to this other than religious discrimination.

They are using the administration's statements and actions as evidence of this. That the executive didn't consult national security advisors about the details of the ban counts against them, as are the various statements of officials and spokespeople. They are basically saying that Trump has shown his arguments to the court can't be trusted and can in fact be ignored. This is a complete flip from the usual deference given to the executive on matters of national security.

A lengthy legal analysis and discussion on Lawfare;
Quote
In this scenario, there are really two presidencies for purposes of judicial review: One is the presidency when judges believe the president’s oath—that is, a presidency in which all sorts of norms of deference apply—and the other is a presidency in which judges don’t believe the oath. What we may be watching here is the development of a new body of law for this second type of presidency. 

This, we suspect, is the true significance of all of the references in both district court opinions to the many statements made by Trump and his aides about the Muslim ban and the true purpose of the policy effectuated in both orders. These references present, of course, as discussions of whether there is truly a secular purpose to the policy in an Establishment Clause analysis using the Lemon test. But there’s at least a little more going on here than that. The lengthy recitations of large numbers of perfectly objectionable presidential statements about Muslims coexist with a bunch of other textual indicia showing not merely that the judges doubt Trump’s secular purpose but that they doubt the good faith of his purpose at all—indeed, that they suspect that he is simply lying about his own motivations.

It's hard to see the decisions made standing up in appeals courts, let alone SCOTUS - especially the Hawaii case on grounds of standing - but judges who do buy into the argument that this president can't be trusted may well also agree with the reasoning here and find enough cause to strike down the law. It largely destroys any effective defence of it the administration can mount, giving groups like the ACLU a much stronger hand.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 05:04:37 am by palsch »
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Neonivek

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Russia scandal evolution edition
« Reply #3609 on: March 17, 2017, 05:01:13 am »

Isn't one huge problem with the law is that it is based on SUPER SECRET security risks that are so secret that only President Trump is privy to them?

I mean there are no checks and balances against such a law. If it was created who could ever disband it but the president because it is based on information the public AND Supreme Court judges aren't allowed to see.

-People: "Yeah, shouldn't we remove that Muslim ban?"
-Trump: "Nope, according to this sheet of paper, they have ultra secret stuff that will hurt us"
-People: "really? can I see that paper?"
-Trump: "No, this is top secret information that only I am allowed to look at"
-People: "Wait, how do I know there is even anything on that paper?"
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 05:02:47 am by Neonivek »
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palsch

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Russia scandal evolution edition
« Reply #3610 on: March 17, 2017, 05:06:06 am »

Isn't one huge problem with the law is that it is based on SUPER SECRET security risks that are so secret that only President Trump is privy to them?

Sorry, had a late edit, but this is what makes it so extraordinary. Traditionally this is a reason for judges to give complete deference to the executive. Here they have shown they have so little reason to trust him they refuse to give even a smidgeon of defence on matters of national security to the man who is meant to have the best view of American security needs in the world.
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Dorsidwarf

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Russia scandal evolution edition
« Reply #3611 on: March 17, 2017, 06:56:21 am »

Isn't one huge problem with the law is that it is based on SUPER SECRET security risks that are so secret that only President Trump is privy to them?

Sorry, had a late edit, but this is what makes it so extraordinary. Traditionally this is a reason for judges to give complete deference to the executive. Here they have shown they have so little reason to trust him they refuse to give even a smidgeon of defence on matters of national security to the man who is meant to have the best view of American security needs in the world.

What, has your cheeto started taking the security briefings he was loudly and publically refusing?
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sluissa

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Russia scandal evolution edition
« Reply #3612 on: March 17, 2017, 12:00:08 pm »

Mike Flynn was paid by Russia's top cybersecurity firm while he still had top-secret-level security clearance

Traitor!


You know what would be hilarious and perfectly in character? If Putin was planting all this circumstantial evidence of Russian collusion on Trump and his people. Nothing even all that hard, just instruct the ambassador to go around and shake hands with a few people. *EDIT* Make a few strategic phone calls, just to give the Intelligence community reason to tap his phones. Give discounts to some of Trump's business people (the middle management types that Trump never even sees) to do business between Trump's stuff and Russian companies. Conveniently provide for the release of vital info against Trump's biggest opponent.

All just to destabilize and sow distrust in the whole system. Nothing seriously damning, noting even really illegal that can be connected to Trump directly... but enough to make everything chaotic over here while he's busy rebuilding the Soviet Union.

Just a fun little idea...
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Greiger

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Russia scandal evolution edition
« Reply #3613 on: March 17, 2017, 12:28:22 pm »

Honestly if that was the case I think it would be good for us in the long term.  For the last decade and a half(maybe longer but that's all the direct presidential election experience I have) voting for president was not about voting for who you wanted as president, it was about voting for who you hated least.

In 2016 there were two people almost everyone universally loathed.  An evil woman who's defense against controversy is being too incompetent to handle more than 1 email, let alone the presidency, and a bold faced liar that is possibly the most corrupt and incompetent buisnessman in the world that does not believe in facts, and has likely never set foot in a science classroom. 

Hillary is self admitted not fit for office, and Donald has been in the news for scandal and bad business practices since well before announcing his candidacy.  It's like an executioner asking you what brand of gun the firing squad should use on you.  Both parties should have withdrawn their candidates and rethought things, but they didn't.

If this kinda shit continues and we get equally bad choices it's only a matter of time before some third party candidate gets a legitimately large following by promising reform.

EDIT: Kinda ranted there.  Point is if russia keeps getting us mad enough at both the republican and democrat parties some of the third parties can only start looking good.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 12:41:42 pm by Greiger »
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Levi

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Russia scandal evolution edition
« Reply #3614 on: March 17, 2017, 01:17:40 pm »

Got a reminder at work today not keep any sensitive information on peoples phones or laptops because US Border Agents are requesting passwords for devices.   :P

Edit:  They are also letting us borrow wiped-phones/clean laptops if you need to travel to the US.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 01:22:39 pm by Levi »
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