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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 4207303 times)

Loud Whispers

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #34530 on: February 05, 2020, 07:50:10 am »

Aint no vote like a CIA vote because a CIA vote absolutely mandatory

Iduno

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #34531 on: February 05, 2020, 08:40:06 am »

Now, for doom and gloom, one notable problem is that, indeed, turnout doesn't seem particularly higher than 2016. Unless the demographics involved are super unusual, that's a pretty bad sign for bernie in particular, as he's hinging a fair amount on getting turnout up and especially among the youth. If that's not actually happening, well...

I guess we just hope iowa isn't any kind of trend setter for the other primaries on that front.

From what I've see, there is an increase in people who normally have given up on politics/politicians actually caring this time around. Whether or not they end up voting remains to be seen.
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dragdeler

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #34532 on: February 05, 2020, 09:03:40 am »

-
« Last Edit: November 24, 2020, 12:04:28 pm by dragdeler »
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sluissa

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #34533 on: February 05, 2020, 09:08:14 am »

I... don't even want to look to see how much of that is accurate.
Sounds like everything but the new car bit, and I haven't watched it at all. :3

Forgot to mention that the cancer dude with the medal was Rush Fucking Limbaugh
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delphonso

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #34534 on: February 05, 2020, 09:13:46 am »

Friend gave me a conspiracy theory about the failure to report results was on purpose - to rob Bernie of a boost from the caucuses. Conspiracy or not, the result is probably true - people are more interested in the fuck up than the actual results.

scourge728

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #34535 on: February 05, 2020, 09:18:08 am »

I mean, I'd believe it

Doomblade187

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #34536 on: February 05, 2020, 09:34:40 am »

I... don't even want to look to see how much of that is accurate.
Sounds like everything but the new car bit, and I haven't watched it at all. :3

Forgot to mention that the cancer dude with the medal was Rush Fucking Limbaugh
Noooo don't give him awards, he's a hatemonger.
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McTraveller

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #34537 on: February 05, 2020, 09:51:47 am »

My state's governor had a rebuttal for the state of the union address last night. Pulling on heartstrings about "the economy needs to be a different kind of strong, for the science teacher who has to use her own money to buy supplies for the class..."

That's a local policy issue, not federal... seriously what are the school districts doing with all that sweet property tax and federal education revenue?

(Also, that's totally a deductible expense. Rhetorical: Do they not teach teachers about how to fill out their W-4 to change their withholding so it doesn't even affect cash flow?)
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Doomblade187

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #34538 on: February 05, 2020, 10:29:06 am »

My state's governor had a rebuttal for the state of the union address last night. Pulling on heartstrings about "the economy needs to be a different kind of strong, for the science teacher who has to use her own money to buy supplies for the class..."

That's a local policy issue, not federal... seriously what are the school districts doing with all that sweet property tax and federal education revenue?

(Also, that's totally a deductible expense. Rhetorical: Do they not teach teachers about how to fill out their W-4 to change their withholding so it doesn't even affect cash flow?)
So, the problem with paying for your own school supplies is that it usually falls *far below* the standard deduction. I believe the average is ~1-2 grand per year per teacher, and the standard deduction stands far above that. Therefore, if you're like most people, and have less to itemize than the standard deduction, it's not a major impact on your taxes, and is still an out of pocket expense.
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sluissa

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #34539 on: February 05, 2020, 10:33:05 am »

Friend gave me a conspiracy theory about the failure to report results was on purpose - to rob Bernie of a boost from the caucuses. Conspiracy or not, the result is probably true - people are more interested in the fuck up than the actual results.

It probably won't be as big of a boost, and it'll probably be for different reasons than traditionally. But I think you'll still see some effect. Warren is bleeding support. I think some of her supporters might still turn to Bernie once it's clear she's not going to win. He can also turn what's effectively a tie for the top two slots into proof he's at least as electable as the competition, which is part of his problem currently. People might like him and his messaging, but simply think he's not electable compared to Trump. Which is a danger. Polls suggest the contrary where he has a decent buffer against Trump in a popular vote, but the electoral college is the danger. Bernie does well in cities. Not as well in rural areas.

Buttigieg will walk away the effective winner, since everyone expected Sanders to do decently, but nobody expected Buttigieg to come from behind like that. Even if it is an effective tie, or even if Sanders climbs back up on top in that last 29% of results yet to be reported, Buttigieg has the potential to ride the wave into a few more wins. But a lot will depend on how the next few play out. He also did pretty well, not GREAT, but pretty well across almost the whole spectrum in Iowa, which could mean he'd be a better contender in an electoral college race.

What I'm really curious to see is how it affects Biden's chances though, now that people see he's mortal and can be defeated. (And not even a close fight, he just got trounced.) I do think that his defeat was overstated in Iowa though. Iowa's caucus system naturally means only the most dedicated supporters are going to be out there and counted. Biden's got supporters, maybe even a bunch of supporters that would be willing to go out and mark a paper for him. But he doesn't make people excited like the other candidates tend to, so his supporters are much less wild in their support. Much less willing to go out on a Monday night and stand in a corner for a couple hours and deal with caucus bullshit. Especially for someone they see as already winning and not really in need of the extra support.

My state's governor had a rebuttal for the state of the union address last night. Pulling on heartstrings about "the economy needs to be a different kind of strong, for the science teacher who has to use her own money to buy supplies for the class..."

That's a local policy issue, not federal... seriously what are the school districts doing with all that sweet property tax and federal education revenue?

(Also, that's totally a deductible expense. Rhetorical: Do they not teach teachers about how to fill out their W-4 to change their withholding so it doesn't even affect cash flow?)

Maybe it's different there, but around here teachers are treated like shit, so much so that you typically can't keep new ones in the job for more than a year or two. They go off looking for better prospects because the pay is shit, the support from the upper end of the system is shit, the kids are getting shittier and the parents typically aren't helpful at all, when you can get ahold of them at all.

A chunk of it is because there's no money, or at least no useful money. There's plenty of money to be had if you don't mind it being earmarked for specific things. Want to buy a class set of computers? Want to hire a behavior management specialist? Want to set up a room specifically for military kids to go cry when their parents get deployed? You want to start occupational training for elementary school students? Great! How much do you need? Those are easy. Want a box of copy paper? Sorry, not in the budget. Need to replace some 20 year old broken chairs? Sorry, we'll try to find the least broken one out of the storage room full of broken chairs to switch out, best we can do. (All real examples either I or people I've worked directly with have experienced.)

We've got plenty of money laying around for things that look good for the people giving the money. If it's something that would be interesting enough to have an article written about it and help someone's reelection chances, or boost local business ego, they'll find the money. It's the god damn boring stuff like paper, erasable markers, health insurance and salaries where the system is falling apart. Combine that with more and more expectations on what the teacher should be accomplishing while at the same time tying their hands from using any useful tools to manage anything.

But again, this is all planned. They WANT to kill public schools so that they can replace them all with private for-profit schools. Schools which don't have to meet the same standards, but are getting government funding all the same. It's infuriating.

And it's also infuriating when people insist that schools are getting enough money and that the teachers are just stupid if they can't make it work. Because it shows they have no fucking clue of how screwed up the system is.

Although I will say, I don't think the governor that spoke really has any idea either. It's a nice little talking point but I don't expect anything to come from talking points like that. And it's not just a matter of "more money will fix this." The system is rotting, and the politicians are either oblivious or just waiting for it to die so they can funnel those government funds to themselves or their friends.

I would say fuck you DeVos, but she's really just the latest and most blatant in a line that goes back decades. She's certainly not helping, and definitely making things worse, but it didn't start with her and from an individual school district's point of view, she's probably not even the most dangerous enemy.
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Iduno

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #34540 on: February 05, 2020, 10:43:57 am »

I know the budget for schools was terrible when I was young, and charter schools are making it worse. It would help if segregation laws also applied to private schools that take public funds, but it's pretty blatant (at least around here) those are the laws they lobbied to avoid.
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SalmonGod

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #34541 on: February 05, 2020, 11:44:38 am »

Despite having very few delegates, Iowa has been proven for a long time to be very strongly predictive of who the nominee will be.  This is because early momentum is ridiculously important.  Candidates who don't have any will drop out early, and support will mostly shift to those who have the strongest early showing.

The Clinton camp's cold approach to electoral politics is aware of this.  We know from the leaks that they had a media strategy using direct ties to many outlets.  So they had unpledged delegates publicly promise their votes to Hillary as early as possible, and then had the media drenched with stories about "Clinton already has hundreds of delegates and Sanders doesn't have any!!!  He should just drop out, he doesn't stand a chance!!!".  IIRC, these stories began running even before the Iowa caucus had taken place and a single common person's vote had been made, and continued to run daily even when Clinton and Sanders were neck and neck in delegates actually accountable to voters.

Considering that precedent, and the revelation that former Clinton staff are crawling all over this year's Iowa caucus debacle, I don't think it's too unreasonable to believe that it is an attempt at robbing Sanders of the momentum he would have gotten from a strong showing in Iowa.
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Zangi

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #34542 on: February 05, 2020, 12:14:43 pm »

And here people thought the Republicans would be tearing themselves apart.
Nah, we already know King Trump already has mastery over the Republicans.
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McTraveller

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #34543 on: February 05, 2020, 01:36:33 pm »

Oh to be clear, I'm totally on-board with the schools budgeting, incentives, and basically all other aspects being due to conflicted interests at best and intentionally malicious at worst.

You also hit on one reason I dislike the standard deduction - it isn't "standard" at all and does annoying things like allow expenses like that to be out of pocket.
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PTTG??

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #34544 on: February 05, 2020, 01:46:20 pm »

The only problem I have with the theory of Clinton having strong connections to the media is the horrible and strongly biased reporting during the campaign in favor of Trump. If you'd only watched the headlines, you'd have the impression he was the only one running. Oh, and that Hillary personally killed everyone in Benghazi with her email server.

Going back to the debacle itself, I'm pretty sure you could write 95 thesises on reformation of the DNC based just on Iowa alone, and a solid 7 of them could be about corn just for starters. I've half a mind to do just that -- imagine if the democratic electorate demanded that the party replace its leadership and modernize, or at least catch up to the 1900s.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2020, 01:53:15 pm by PTTG?? »
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