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[Naturegirl1999]

This has nothing to do with whether or not reliefs people are white. Every religion says that every other religion is false and only their religion is true. Every religion has been used to help the leaders of a group get the populous to fight for (insert deity(s)/force here). Every religion is false. A belief in something despite contradictory evidence. The definition of delusion is an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument. I think religion can be said to fit this.

[Trolldefender99]

This has nothing to do with whether or not reliefs people are white. Every religion says that every other religion is false and only their religion is true. Every religion has been used to help the leaders of a group get the populous to fight for (insert deity(s)/force here). Every religion is false. A belief in something despite contradictory evidence. The definition of delusion is an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument. I think religion can be said to fit this.

yes, I agree on that point. that even the same religion, different churches or mosques or whatever they happen to be say another church/mosque etc is not the real one and to go to theirs. Except, being against islam or judaism or whatever it happens to be is still bigotry. Thats no different than what china is doing by slaughtering people of religions they don't like and committing genocide against them. That is what being against religion ends up happening. That goes into the realm of extreme prejudice and definitely genocide (for what china is doing anyway) just because the chinese government doesn't like religion despite them supposedly having freedom of religion.

(edit: I should probably remove myself from this particular topic for now since not in best of moods. I posted in the east asia thread, so don't really want to bring same topic to two threads. But when I saw china committing genocide on top of massive organ harvesting of millions of muslims made me so angry today. and no one seems to care barely

[Lord Shonus]

This has nothing to do with whether or not reliefs people are white. Every religion says that every other religion is false and only their religion is true. Every religion has been used to help the leaders of a group get the populous to fight for (insert deity(s)/force here). Every religion is false. A belief in something despite contradictory evidence. The definition of delusion is an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument. I think religion can be said to fit this.

You have the right to believe that. I have the right to believe that you're completely wrong. I do not have the right to impose my beliefs on you by force. You do not have the right to impose your belief on me by force. Which is the reason that religious institutions are tax-exempt in the first place - placing special taxes on a religion is a historically-popular means of exterminating any that a ruler dislikes.

[Doomblade187]

@Trolldefender, China is a poor example, as they are notoriously authoritarian. The United States as it stands has a legal and historical backing for creating a nation that relies on "negative" religious freedom. One where you don't have to do things explicitly against your religion, but you are not allowed to impose on anyone else.

Being against religion doesn't mean wanting to eliminate all religion - it just means you advocate against religion.

[Naturegirl1999]

@Trolldefender, China is a poor example, as they are notoriously authoritarian. The United States as it stands has a legal and historical backing for creating a nation that relies on "negative" religious freedom. One where you don't have to do things explicitly against your religion, but you are not allowed to impose on anyone else.

Being against religion doesn't mean wanting to eliminate all religion - it just means you advocate against religion.

I advocate against it. Also, I think that parents indoctrinating their children with religion counts as imposing religion on others.

[Naturegirl1999]

So Trump seems to think that something allowed in the Constitution is treason...I don’t know what else to say other than whistleblowers are not traitors, they are revealers

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Here comes the shadow war.

[Naturegirl1999]

Here comes the shadow war.

The Shadiw War? Who are the combatants?(I don’t think literal combat will be involved, but it’s a good idea to know who will be involved in the war of spies)

[Folly]

whistleblowers are not traitors, they are revealers

Can't they be both?

[Frumple]

I... don't think so, actually. At least not for the whistleblowing. If they're covered by the stuff that legally defines it, it more or less by definition precludes treason. You can't really betray the country to itself. Similarly, unless the country's explicitly declared war on its own population or some shite, you can't betray the country to the civilian population or something, either. Just as a sort of general thing blowing the whistle can't really slot itself into treason. It's too... public, I guess would be the word.

They could be traitors for something else, but... not that. Colloquially they could be traitors in reference to specific relationships (betraying someone's trust, whatever), but, like. That's actually at most a contract violation or security fuckup or somethin' when it's in regards to an individual or non-nation scale organization. The narrow definition of treason cuts both ways, sometimes.

[Folly]

Definition of traitor
1: one who betrays another's trust or is false to an obligation or duty
2: one who commits treason

Definition of treason
1: the offense of attempting by overt acts to overthrow the government of the state to which the offender owes allegiance or to kill or personally injure the sovereign or the sovereign's family
2: the betrayal of a trust : TREACHERY

Sounds about right to me.
And I'm not trying to impugn the whistleblower. They were totally in the right. But going by the strict definition of the words, I do think they technically commited treason, even if it was legally and morally justified.

[PTTG??]

The president isn't a sovereign, and the whistleblower was trying to preserve the norms and laws of his nation, so no, not a traitor.

[hector13]

Oh my god this is so stupid.

The impeachment will go nowhere because the Republicans Control the Senste (sure, this shit needs investigation, but you can do that without starting the process which will, if you’ll excuse the pun, end at a big wall) and there is evidence in the transcript that the White House release that he urged a foreign country to investigate a political rival, regardless of whether or not he was withholding military aid to get them to do it.

Why is politics so stupid.

PPE: in which definition is the whistleblower engaged? ‘cause I don’t see it

[PTTG??]

Donald Trump wants to meet the whistleblower.

Apparently he's under the impression that he is being sued?

[Lord Shonus]

Definition of traitor
1: one who betrays another's trust or is false to an obligation or duty
2: one who commits treason

Definition of treason
1: the offense of attempting by overt acts to overthrow the government of the state to which the offender owes allegiance or to kill or personally injure the sovereign or the sovereign's family
2: the betrayal of a trust : TREACHERY

Sounds about right to me.
And I'm not trying to impugn the whistleblower. They were totally in the right. But going by the strict definition of the words, I do think they technically commited treason, even if it was legally and morally justified.

Counterpoint:

1: Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.