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[Sergarr]

Obamacare repeal on the way?

They're keeping the "don't discriminate against the sick" clause but removing the "everyone should have insurance" clause. I think this is a problem as far as actual insurance premiums go. Young single people are just going to not get insured, which is going to push up premiums on those who cannot afford to go without insurance - sick people and people with families. And that's going be even more of a disincentive for the "well" to get private insurance.

Spreading out the pool of insured people as big as possible dampens the already existing high medical cost inflation, which was actually lower than before Obamacare. The 20 year average inflation in medical costs is 3.7%, while it was 2.5% in 2014, 3.5% in 2015. So there's been no spike in medical costs above what normally happens anyway, in fact it's been lower than average.

Also boo to rolling back Medicaid, which is probably just about the most efficient system you guys have there.

I've heard that people with low income were having very big problems paying Obamacare. As it is, it was a flat tax - flat because everyone pays or is supposed to pay the exact same amount. It's obviously quite a bad thing for poor people. There are provisions for very poor people, but if you're just above the income threshold, you have to pay the full amount just like if you were a very rich person, plus it serves as an additional drain on people trying to raise their income starting low.

Of course, the obvious solution of "let's just make it a tax, which takes a percentage off everyone and is thus fair" is socialism and is thus impossible to actually push through because America is exceptional:

Exceptionally inefficient, in this case.

[redwallzyl]

if we take away the private insurance providers then what about all the poor CEOs and shareholders? how will they ever survive? /s

[smjjames]

Also, Ben Carson is rambling off again (NYT article) This time referring to African slaves as 'immigrants' in first remarks to HUD.

Spoiler: text from NYT article (click to show/hide)

Ben Carson’s first full week as secretary of Housing and Urban Development got off to a rough start on Monday after he described African slaves as “immigrants” during his first speech to hundreds of assembled department employees. The remark, which came as part of a 40-minute address on the theme of America as “a land of dreams and opportunity,” was met with swift outrage online.

Mr. Carson turned his attention to slavery after describing photographs of poor immigrants displayed at the Ellis Island National Museum of Immigration. These new arrivals worked long hours, six or seven days a week, with little pay, he said. And before them, there were slaves.

“That’s what America is about, a land of dreams and opportunity,’’ he said. “There were other immigrants who came here in the bottom of slave ships, worked even longer, even harder for less. But they too had a dream that one day their sons, daughters, grandsons, granddaughters, great-grandsons, great-granddaughters, might pursue prosperity and happiness in this land.”

The comparison was first reported by USA Today and quickly drew the ire of social media users who attacked the secretary, who is African-American, for what they saw as racially insensitive comments. On Twitter, the comedian and actress Whoopi Goldberg recommended Mr. Carson watch the 1980s mini-series “Roots.”

    Ben Carson..please read or watch Roots, most immigrants come here VOLUNTARILY,cant't really say the same about the slaves..they were stolen
    — Whoopi Goldberg (@WhoopiGoldberg) March 6, 2017

The Department of Housing and Urban Development was stunned by the uproar and spent part of the afternoon responding to the news media on Twitter. In a statement, it said critics were watching only a short clip from a 30-minute speech and were viewing the remarks in bad faith.

“This is the most cynical interpretation of the secretary’s remarks to an army of welcoming HUD employees,” the department said in a statement. “No one honestly believes he equates voluntary immigration with involuntary servitude!”

A spokesman for the department said Mr. Carson’s speech appeared to cause little upset among the employees who had gathered to hear him speak. Several hundred people attended the event and many lingered afterward to snap selfies with Mr. Carson, who was sworn in last Thursday.

On Monday night, following a radio interview in which he defended his remarks earlier in the day, Mr. Carson also did so on Twitter. “You can be an involuntary immigrant,” he said, adding that “slaves didn’t just give up and die, our ancestors made something of themselves.” He continued, ‘An immigrant is; “a person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country.”’

and Samuel L. Jackson and Chelsea Clinton slamming it.

I think I kind of get what he's trying to say, that we're all from elsewhere, but uh, that kind of falls apart with any sort of forced relocation. Not sure if you'd call Britians who were forced to go to Australia, 'immigrants', because it's the same kind of involuntary relocation.

@Sergarr, yeah, that graph makes you wonder 'what the heck is with that outlier?'. Though, not sure how 'socialism' became far less of a bad thing in Europe while it still makes people go into hyperdefense mode at the mere sound of the word in the US.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Though the individual mandate is far from a perfect system (single-payer 4 lyfe), it's better to have it than not to have it. Paying the penalty is indeed tough on people - but they're not supposed to be paying it. The logic is that the penalty will always cost more than a healthcare plan, so they'll do that instead, much in the same way that you can technically cancel your driver's insurance so long as you accept the automatic liability you will be assigned for any and all accidents. It would of course also have been better had the business mandate remained mandatory everywhere.

In addition, "not paying either" will be more expensive both individually and in totality due to lack of preventive care or coverage, it's just that humans don't operate on that frame of reference.

In closing, everything is the Republican's fault.

[Frumple]

Hyperdefense thing not actually complicated, smj. Cold War.

I've heard that people with low income were having very big problems paying Obamacare. As it is, it was a flat tax - flat because everyone pays or is supposed to pay the exact same amount. It's obviously quite a bad thing for poor people.

Eh? The fine is flat, iirc, but that's not exactly a tax. Near as I can recall most people with low income, particularly those with very low income, have been at the absolute least no worse off than they were previously so far as paying goes. There are exceptions, but they're exceptions rather than significant trends. And the effect the ACA has generally had on healthcare inflation's been good (in the sense of it being better than things would have been without it, at minimum) for a lot of poorer folks, to say nothing of the non-monetary aspects. There's the occasional hullabaloo saying otherwise, but near as I've noticed just about every one of those turned out to be bullshit to one degree or another.

The provision for very poor people is they don't pay the fine whatsit, at the absolute least in the states where their governance didn't accept further aid. Once you're over the income threshold, assistance starts kicking in up until a relatively comfortable point, so far as I can recall of the last time (last year, year before, something like that)I looked into the thing on a personal level.

[misko27]

It's worth noting that while this is, in theory, the "final" version, there's no guarantee any of this survives contact with the Senate or House. Four Republicans from states where Medicaid was expanded have signed a message to Mitch McConell expressing concern about people losing coverage (which is a comfortable margin to block it on), while other moderates expressed resistance to the defunding of Planned Parenthood for a year; while there are still no guarantees that the conservative wing will agree to it, either in the House (Amash tweeted "Obamacare 2.0" after the plan was released) or the Senate (where Ted Cruz and co. still loom).

[smjjames]

I wonder if there is a way to frame the European or even Canadian healthcare so that it doesn't go off as radioactive 'socialism'?

[redwallzyl]

I wonder if there is a way to frame the European or even Canadian healthcare so that it doesn't go off as radioactive 'socialism'?

get rid of the old people, that's how. the younger generations aren't so stupid as to fall for the evil communism distraction any more.

[hector13]

I wonder if there is a way to frame the European or even Canadian healthcare so that it doesn't go off as radioactive 'socialism'?

get rid of the old people, that's how. the younger generations aren't so stupid as to fall for the evil communism distraction any more.

But China..!

[MetalSlimeHunt]

It's funny, because I've seen a few polls now that suggest Democrats sort-of favor China while Republicans sort-of favor Russia. Weird. I wonder if this will become a thing...

[smjjames]

I wonder if there is a way to frame the European or even Canadian healthcare so that it doesn't go off as radioactive 'socialism'?

get rid of the old people, that's how. the younger generations aren't so stupid as to fall for the evil communism distraction any more.

But that'll take too long. Also, even the younger generation of Republicans (politicians at least) are still going on about socialism.

Anyway, the Republican draft* healthcare bill looks like something that is going to make nobody happy.

*Not sure if it's still a draft and they're saying "This is what we have so far." or if it's a finalized thing.

Also, they had seven freaking YEARS to come up with ideas.

Not to mention that they DID THE EXACT SAME THING AS DEMOCRATS DID, by refusing to work with the other side.

I wonder if there is a way to frame the European or even Canadian healthcare so that it doesn't go off as radioactive 'socialism'?

get rid of the old people, that's how. the younger generations aren't so stupid as to fall for the evil communism distraction any more.

But China..!

They're more of a strange mix of semi-capitalist economy and authoritarian communist party. Besides, I don't think anybody is actually looking towards the Chinese healthcare system as a model of greatness.

It's funny, because I've seen a few polls now that suggest Democrats sort-of favor China while Republicans sort-of favor Russia. Weird. I wonder if this will become a thing...

Different priorities maybe? Also, China isn't actively trying to bring down the liberal world order, it would mean destroying the economic place that they have.

[Reelya]

I wonder if there is a way to frame the European or even Canadian healthcare so that it doesn't go off as radioactive 'socialism'?

get rid of the old people, that's how. the younger generations aren't so stupid as to fall for the evil communism distraction any more.

The problem is when literally everything that's against coporate power is labeled "communist" then it completely loses any meaning an impact.

Open Source Software = Communist
Plain Packaging on Cigarettes = Communist
The Muppets = Communist
Starbucks plain Christmas cups = Communist
Pirating music = Communist

[Frumple]

Not to mention that they DID THE EXACT SAME THING AS DEMOCRATS DID, by refusing to work with the other side.

No, not even remotely the exact same thing. Dems actually tried a fair bit to work with the other side during obama's first term. I could understand why the reps aren't much trying the same thing (worry the dems be as much of a bastard as the GOP was given that opportunity... which for what fairness is to be had, given the last handful of years I wouldn't much blame the dems if they were), but don't try to draw strong equivalence, here. Folks who fucked the prisoner's dilemma first ain't equally distributed between our political parties.

[smjjames]

I wonder if there is a way to frame the European or even Canadian healthcare so that it doesn't go off as radioactive 'socialism'?

get rid of the old people, that's how. the younger generations aren't so stupid as to fall for the evil communism distraction any more.

The problem is when literally everything that's against coporate power is labeled "communist" then it completely loses any meaning an impact.

Open Source Software = Communist
Plain Packaging on Cigarettes = Communist
The Muppets = Communist
Starbucks plain Christmas cups = Communist
Pirating music = Communist

You forgot to add "Everything Obama does", and yes, it's been dumbed down into meaninglessness.

[Reelya]

You forgot to add "Everything Obama does", and yes, it's been dumbed down into meaninglessness.

On TV back in the 1990s I saw a segment once about a store that let you bring your own bags and scoop out all the groceries etc by weight. Then they had a representative of the plastics industry association interviewed and he was screaming about how not having packaging on produce was communism. That one stuck with me because of how dumb it was.