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[TempAcc]

The principles I and martinuz mentioned are essentialy supra legal and universal (at least in theory) by nature. One does not have to be a citizen in order for such things to be respected in regards to his person. Citizenship has always been a gray area in many ways, but the mechanisms used in the guy's deportation violate these basic principles, and thus shouldn't have affected him. This will likely become a supreme court issue.

[martinuzz]

The principles I and martinuz mentioned are essentialy supra legal and universal (at least in theory) by nature. One does not have to be a citizen in order for such things to be respected in regards to his person. Citizenship has always been a gray area in many ways, but the mechanisms used in the guy's deportation violate these basic principles, and thus shouldn't have affected him. This will likely become a supreme court issue.

No it won't, because it already has been. The guy fought deportation for 7 years, up to the highest federal court, which I understand is the Canadian equivalent of Supreme Court.

[misko27]

Have you SEEN what Canadian Jails were like in the 20s?

No, can you ask your time-traveller friends to give us a ride to see how it was? Field-trip time.

Babylon? Sure! If they know anything factual about it... and not another reference to the Tower

The joke is Babylon is in Iraq.

Full protection of a nation's laws and rights only comes with citizenship of that nation.

That's not to say there are no protections for non-citizens in Canada. But they and any other country can also dump non-citizens out for basically any reason as well. Because technically they are there only as foreign visitors. Even a "permanent resident" is only there at the allowance of the state. Allowance that can be revoked at any time the government deems is appropriate.

I'd avoid speaking too generally there. That (may, I don't actually know anything about Canadian law, and I honestly do not care to know more) be the case for Canada, but other countries might have different laws on this, particularly the EU. A blanket statement like "they and any other country" is just begging to be proven wrong.

[Rolan7]

The principles I and martinuz mentioned are essentialy supra legal and universal (at least in theory) by nature. One does not have to be a citizen in order for such things to be respected in regards to his person. Citizenship has always been a gray area in many ways, but the mechanisms used in the guy's deportation violate these basic principles, and thus shouldn't have affected him. This will likely become a supreme court issue.

Being a citizen is important.  We should make it easier to acquire citizenship, not treat non-citizens like citizens.  Maybe in such an extreme case Canada's executive branch should make an exception, however that works, but the length of his residency isn't really relevant.  Clearly not legally, yeah, but also morally...  He was never a Canadian citizen, and he isn't being put in double jeopardy.  He's being returned home.

Edit:  Though uh, I do feel sorry for the guy...  I can't exactly imagine how that must feel, except having moved around a lot in a single small state.  Not really the same at all.

[Neonivek]

To my knowledge he outright had the qualifications to be a Canadian citizen.

I think it was more, if I am reading it right, that he never knew he wasn't a Canadian Citizen so he never applied for it.

[martinuzz]

Nah he knew, but according to his brother, he is an old hippy who does not believe in any nationality except 'earthling', and hence never bothered to change it. (And, as brought up before, he had no reason to, until suddenly a new law was passed 40 years after he served his sentence)

But regardless of forfeiture or ne bis in idem, I think he had a good case on humanitarian grounds, and I cannot understand a judge not taking his bipolar disorder into account.
Because it is indeed more than likely that, when cut off from his social network, in an alien environment, he will relapse into either bad depression, or mania. Especially considering that he's gonna be sent to the Salvation Army for support once he gets here (which is not much more than a place to sleep for the night if you're in time before it's full, a cup of coffee in the morning, and then out to the streets you go until it reopens in the evening). The Canadian judge ruled that 'Social networks in the Netherlands are sufficient'.
Let me tell you, they're not. 30 years of neocon policy saw to that. Perhaps for him they will be, because his case got media attention. But instead of sufficient social networks, he's gonna face bureaucracy, waiting lists for psychiatric help (unless he completely goes bonkers, in which case he'll be admitted to the funny farm), and waiting lists for housing.  The increase in 'confused persons' wandering the streets is actually national news, and recurring theme in the public debate over here for a while now
Found a link to an english article: https://www.cheknews.ca/courtenay-man-deported-monday-284220/
 

[Max™]

Remember the Alamo

It's funny though, I'm sure it can be hard sometimes to tell when I am saying something absurd because it amuses me (I'm against abortions because it's a waste of tasty babies!) or I'm actually talking about something that happened (I was once stranded on an island in the atlantic, slept under a church porch, and then to pay my way back home I got a job at an ice cream parlor with a brit, an irishman, and as I'm scot enough to count we were the set up for a cheesy joke) but when I said before that it never crossed my mind that kids in other states didn't take Texas History... I honestly mean I just kinda assumed they had!

Non-slavery African history: Timbuktu was one of the first major examples of something we would call a college nowadays, and isn't actually that far from the sites where the French did their nuclear bomb testing, oh and there were like millions of years of hominids and their predecessors doing their thing in Africa, there's no concidence that megafauna which evolved alongside us were able to survive us better than the ones we took by surprise when we escaped into the rest of the world.


Back on topic: to the couple of posters who were mentioning email servers on the last page or two, Pence apparently did the same thing, on AOL, and got hacked, so, ha ha ha, etc.

[sluissa]

I'd avoid speaking too generally there. That (may, I don't actually know anything about Canadian law, and I honestly do not care to know more) be the case for Canada, but other countries might have different laws on this, particularly the EU. A blanket statement like "they and any other country" is just begging to be proven wrong.

Except where there are treaties in place or where a country creates its own laws pertaining to it, I'd find it pretty hard to argue that a country could lawfully be compelled to keep people within its borders who are not citizens of said country.

Where a treaty is in place or where laws exist are at the pleasure of that country's government and their pleasure can change.

Some precedent in international law exists for such purposes, notably for refugees, but that stands on fairly shaky legal ground. That's not to mention that almost all international law is generally unenforceable on the scale of an individual person anyway.

[smjjames]

Dems trying a new tactic to get Trump to release his tax returns. Also, a clever acronym. Though it says legal experts are iffy on whether it'd actually work.

Anyways, whether or not the whole 'wiretap' thing is a distraction or not, it's already backfiring on him because it'll just make calls for investigation louder and it's still turning attention onto him.

The quote of Sen. Graham on Vox (can't select the text in the article for some reason) pretty much sums it up.

[TempAcc]

Well, since it has already gone that far, I guess the only hope is some sort of international ruling by a court to which canada adheres to, but thats an unlikely venue, and such ruling would likely have to be validated by canada's supreme court equivalent, meaning the supreme court would have to overule itself to do it, and thats a whole 'nother can of worms.

I guess a good bit of the court's ruling was based off the fact the guy did have the opportunity to change his nationality, but simply chose to not do it. Doesn't dimish the controversy of the whole thing, but the fact he did have the opportunity to set it right (and had the opportunity to know of of the legal consequences of not doing it) prob weakened his case a fair bit. Still pretty bizarre, but I can understand the circunstances that led to this.

[Wolock]

Just to clarify : The equivalent of the Supreme Court in Canada is actually name the Supreme Court. It cannot review a case from the Federal Court unless permission is granted either at the Trial or Appeal divisions. The last resort in immigration case would be the Minister of Immigration himself.

[martinuzz]

Meanwhile in Canada, the government has decided to supply more money and manpower to border patrols, because towns and villages at the border are swamped in refugees from the US, beyond their shelter capabilities.

[ChairmanPoo]

 they should build a wall. and make the US pay for it.

Make Canada great again

[smjjames]

Just to clarify : The equivalent of the Supreme Court in Canada is actually name the Supreme Court. It cannot review a case from the Federal Court unless permission is granted either at the Trial or Appeal divisions. The last resort in immigration case would be the Minister of Immigration himself.

Canada has an immigration minister/secretary as a cabinet position? Interesting. We don't have one that specifically and solely covers immigration.

[Hanslanda]

they should build a wall. and make the US pay for it.

Make Canada great again

This message paid for by the Kevin Bacon for president of Canada Commission