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[smjjames]

Yeah, seemed like if anything in the Russian interference stuff was redacted, it'd be due to classified stuff rather than 'harm to ongoing matter' which usually means some other investigation that is ongoing.

[EnigmaticHat]

Yeah, seemed like if anything in the Russian interference stuff was redacted, it'd be due to classified stuff rather than 'harm to ongoing matter' which usually means some other investigation that is ongoing.

Yeah, especially considering all the Russian organizations involved were charged with crimes and chose not to show up to defend themselves.  Like... what ongoing matter could there be besides Mueller and congress?  The FBI, NSA and CIA already seem to have reached their conclusions.

[smjjames]

The Roger Stone case maybe? Don't know why his name was redacted at an earlier point when talking about the release because it was all too obvious from the surrounding that the redacted name is Roger Stone. Stuff related to Assanage is also a possibility.

Also, it said earlier that while there was some interactions, there wasn't enough evidence to rise to a criminal level and most of the direct interactions seemed to happen AFTER the election. Plus there appears to have been a heck of a lot of interaction with the IRA (the Russian hacking group), whether that was wittingly or unwittingly, no idea.

Actually, doesn't Manafort still have a trial coming up? That would be considered 'ongoing matter'. There could be other ongoing matters that aren't well known publicly and theres that thing with the mysterious Russian company.

Also, from the guardian liveblog, Trump had a 'Oh shit!' moment when Mueller was appointed: •Trump believed he was “fucked” and his presidency over when Robert Mueller was appointed. According to notes kept by Jody Hunt, who served as Sessions’ chief of staff, Trump’s reaction to Mueller’s appointment was as follows: “The President slumped back in his chair and said, ‘Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my presidency. I’m fucked.’”

Which IMO just indicates panic or a realization of 'oh crap, what have I done?'

[Folly]

“The President slumped back in his chair and said, ‘Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my presidency. I’m fucked.’”

No doubt he was just telling a joke when he said that. Trump has the best jokes. Normal people can't even understand Trump's jokes, that's just how intelligent his sense of humor is.

[smjjames]

It'd be perfectly understandable for him to think 'oh crap, I'm screwed'. At page 131 atm (taking my time and also being distracted by other things, heh) and while it doesn't say why some of the things were initiated, it seems like a lot of this comes down to ethics, or rather, a lack of it.

The whole convention platform looks to have been entirely an interpretation by the campaign staff of Trumps positions, insofar as they can be pinned down.

[Frumple]

Yeah, seemed like if anything in the Russian interference stuff was redacted, it'd be due to classified stuff rather than 'harm to ongoing matter' which usually means some other investigation that is ongoing.

Yeah, especially considering all the Russian organizations involved were charged with crimes and chose not to show up to defend themselves.  Like... what ongoing matter could there be besides Mueller and congress?  The FBI, NSA and CIA already seem to have reached their conclusions.

Meuller's still working with the counterintelligence investigation, as far as I'm aware, and there's like a pile of other shit he farmed out to other organizations and whatnot. Mueller's (apparently pretty heavily limited, from what I'm picking up from chatter) criminal investigation has always only been part of the picture.

Also damn but that obstruction stuff. Seems to boil down to "he's guilty as fuck but we don't want to deal with the political shitshow, let congress handle it." Throw in that incompetence is possibly the only thing that prevented some criminal conspiracy charges and it's definitely showing that barr has been spinning like a circus clown on meth since he started talking about the report.

[MorleyDev]

"The President's efforts to influence the investigation were mostly unsuccessful, but that is largely because the persons who surrounded the President declined to carry out orders or accede to his requests."

Pretty sure that sums up the Trump presidency, really...

[smjjames]

Is there a searchable format for this thing? It doesn't work in the browser and downloading it showed it to be a series of apparent images rather than text. edit: Oh, CNN has one.

CNN said that Mueller looked into those alleged 'pee tapes' (which isn't surprising) and I guess they don't exist after all (seemed way too salacious to me anyway), but I missed that when scanning through volume I.

[Telgin]

"The President's efforts to influence the investigation were mostly unsuccessful, but that is largely because the persons who surrounded the President declined to carry out orders or accede to his requests."

Pretty sure that sums up the Trump presidency, really...

It sounds like Trump explicitly tried to obstruct justice, but it just didn't work.  Sounds to me like a problem by itself, although I know there's no way the current congress would act on it.

[smjjames]

You know, I wonder what the Republicans reaction would be if the names of everybody involved were scrambled and/or replaced with Republicans least/most favorite Democrats and everybody is Democrat and not Republican? I bet they wouldn't be as okay with everything as they are treating Trump.

[McTraveller]

The Cracked video about the election is proving more and more prescient.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qIQbydyHwc

Remember: that video is from June of 2016.

[Frumple]

It sounds like Trump explicitly tried to obstruct justice, but it just didn't work.  Sounds to me like a problem by itself, although I know there's no way the current congress would act on it.

Trying and failing doesn't actually absolve you of criminal conduct, no. Can make what you get convicted of change, but as a baseline "well, I didn't actually manage to accomplish anything when I tried" is, like. Not going to save your ass if you make it to court. At all.

You know, I wonder what the Republicans reaction would be if the names of everybody involved were scrambled and/or replaced with Republicans least/most favorite Democrats and everybody is Democrat and not Republican? I bet they wouldn't be as okay with everything as they are treating Trump.

They would flip the everloving fuck out, yes. You might actually lose part of the party as their heads exploded from apoplectic rage.

[birdy51]

Impeaching Trump as a sitting president would be a dicey proposition. As far as I can see it, Trump's base is in a cult like trance with him, insomuch that taking direct action against him would be potentially catastrophic (in an election sense, anyways). The best thing I think that one could do, is just reinforce that Trump has something to hide. 'Cause shit. The dude probably is hiding more than a few skeletons in his closet. One his reputation is finally and completely tarnished in the eyes of most Americans, will finally some kind of justice be done about his obstruction.

[sluissa]

I tend to agree with that.

Ousting him with just about anything short of the most extreme cases of irrefutable criminal evidence, is going to do more harm than good to democrats, in the long run.

Most of his supporters will never believe it, no matter what you throw in front of them, but there's a good chunk of them who, while supportive of the policies, are still on the fence about the guy himself. If he's taken down on a technicality despite being "loved", that's as close to political martyrdom as you're going to get. If it just goes to the next election, and he's simply voted out, there will be plenty of whining and screaming, but it's a much harder sell that he was taken down unfairly.

Just let the evidence act as a stand in for mudslinging in the campaign. Put up a good candidate. Don't do anything stupid. Avoid giving him ammunition as much as possible.

Now if you can get video of him taking orders from Papa Putin, then by all means... go for it... but anything short of that is likely going to be a battle not really worth fighting, even if you do end up winning.

I'm as frustrated as anyone, but patience is something we can't afford to lose.

[Dunamisdeos]

I agree with your strategy, but I'm pretty sure we lost it sometime around the goldfish incident, where CNN outright doctored a video on global television to make him look mildly stupid. Worth.

Basically been jumping, pointing and screaming at every possible shadow since, thereby playing directly into his hands. Can't just let him hang himself, we have to be the bad enough dudes to do it.