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[Starver]

I am think many of his 'supporters' aren't actually for him, just dissatisfied with their currently not-perfect status and like their chances of things shuffling them into a better situation if they overturn the situation as-was and trust to the gods of fate favouring them in what happens next.

I speak not as an American but as a Brit seeing the same phenomenon with Brexit. Every nay-sayer is obviously wrong, while their own chosen prophet makes speculative claims that they don't see any problem with (about both ongoing and future results, because current 'facts' are as divided as the predictive outcomes).

If they find their enhanced tolerance for uncomfortable truths about their shaker-upperer is insufficiently rewarded by outcome, they'll probably find another figurehead, and the process will start again, on a new (not likely superior) level, but inertia will keep them riding along to the downhill slope for longer than necessary.

[SalmonGod]

There are also people in the USA who are really just plain stupid enough to fail to recognize any of that stuff that's wrong with him.  They fall completely for his shallow facade of confidence, and take everything he says at face value.  They buy completely into the idea that wealth is a reliable indicator of work ethic and intelligence.  They only watch Fox News, which operates as a blatant propaganda wing of the republican party, and regard any contradiction they encounter to Republican talking points as liberal propaganda and lies.

I personally know these people.  Some are extended family.  One is the branch manager where I work.  They are mostly Baby Boomers who have failed to keep up with how to be properly informed in today's world.  They still follow the old 70's to 90's model of 'watch the evening news on your favorite tv channel and believe whatever they say'.  They choose Fox News as their favorite, because it intentionally  channels two-minutes-hate psychology.  And this is just personal impression, but there's something about Boomer culture that seems to make them severely vulnerable to that kind of emotional manipulation.  They can't seem to separate thoughts from feelings, and manage their emotions by projecting them onto the world instead of ever reflecting on them.  Toxic stuff.

I'm from Indiana, USA, btw.

[sluissa]

From my angle the biggest reason he has supporters is the fact that he's the republican and they'll support whoever is wearing their colors.

Secondly, his most active supporters, excepting the extremists who ACTUALLY like him, but the ones who pay attention and are willing to support him despite their reservations. They're mostly held together by Fox News and the idea that all other news is fake/untrustworthy and given Fox more or less continues to support him without reservation (They have broken ranks on rare occasions especially when Trump's been especially anti-media and said just unforgivable false or offensive things.) That combined with circles of likeminded friends and colleagues leads to this sort of "Well, he's not perfect, but there's no way I'm going with the alternative" Since the "Alternative" is framed as some sort of villain that wants to ruin america by Fox and thus gets reinforced by the circles that also listen.

And then you have the extremists and the memers. I feel like they're a small enough group to not matter numbers wise, but they're also some of the loudest and they feel empowered by the signals coming from the top, so they're even louder than normal.

There's a bit of a subgroup as well, possibly quite large, I've found, that sort of crosses over between the others. They're just sick and tired of the loud and often incessant, hard left wing messaging that's going on around them that they feel like they're forced to, if not actually support trump, at least lean towards that wing as they feel like they're pushed away from the left.

[Pumble]

Hmm, thank you for the replies. I hadn't considered the baby boomer angle, but I also see it here in Australia where there is a certain group of folks who do the same thing.
It feels like the climate in America is getting really toxic. Have you guys noticed that or does it just seem especially bad because I'm a foreigner and not used to the way Americas have their discourse?

[JoshuaFH]

Hmm, thank you for the replies. I hadn't considered the baby boomer angle, but I also see it here in Australia where there is a certain group of folks who do the same thing.
It feels like the climate in America is getting really toxic. Have you guys noticed that or does it just seem especially bad because I'm a foreigner and not used to the way Americas have their discourse?

not used to the way Americas have their discourse?

Nobody is used to the way we discourse.

[Folly]

As previous posters said, some people believe Trump's lies, or watch news sources that don't report bad things about him. Some disregard the bad things because they are focused on the parts of him that they like. And there are also some who dislike Trump, but feel that the alternatives are actually worse.

Bear in mind that Trump did not win the popular vote when he was elected, and he has polled as extremely unpopular the entire time he has been in office. Trump's views do not reflect what most Americans actually believe.

[Kagus]

Pretty much what SalmonGod said. I've got family who are Trump supporters, despite having no reason to be so.

The racism? My uncle is a roofer in California. Working that kind of job, in that location, you're bound to have a good 80% of your coworkers be Mexican, and it's not unreasonable to assume that not all of them are completely legal. My uncle loves these guys, and has had an extended network of Mexican friends and their families forever. He invites them home to have dinner with his family, and is always in awe of their work ethic and friendly demeanor.

But when he hears Trump talk about immigration? "Those god-damned Mexican illegals keep hopping the border and ruining everything!"

My uncle's family doesn't make a lot of money, partly because they don't exactly have the highest-paying jobs and partly because he's hilariously bad with money, and numbers/math in general (as a lifelong fisherman, everything is exponential). He firmly supports and believes that Trump is doing what's best for him by cutting social security and giving tax breaks to the uber-rich.

My uncle was diagnosed with kidney cancer a number of years back. Being in a lower income bracket, they couldn't really afford regular medical insurance. And trying to get insurance after you've been diagnosed is a fool's errand, since it's now technically a "pre-existing condition".

But that was back when ACA was in force, and it was specifically through the ACA that he managed to get the operations and specialist treatment necessary. He's been 100% cancer-free since 2015.

When he hears Trump talk about medicare? "That god-damned Obamacare, destroying the medical system and draining our economy dry!"


Muslims, homosexuals, blacks, economy, medicine, science... My uncle has lived a life that directly opposes Trump on almost every single topic. But he listens to Trump, and he believes him. He believes Trump is an expert in every field he claims to be an expert in. He believes Trump is the greatest negotiator and diplomat to have ever lived. He believes that Trump will, truly and wholly, make America great again.

And for every specific instance where Trump's speech conflicts with my uncle's actions? "That doesn't count", or "You don't know enough about it to say".



And those are some of the people who still trust and follow Trump. The ones who simply cannot find a conflict between what Trump says and reality.

The others are people who are just as despicable as Trump, and are happy to finally have an appropriate representative in office.

[SalmonGod]

The atmosphere here is very toxic right now.  Political tension and culture war have always been a thing here, as far as I can tell, going all the way back to the civil war.  But Reagan tapped into something that made it worse.  And it's been accelerating dramatically ever since 9/11.  That's when I started to see divergence growing more extreme, discourse getting more shrill, anxiety over stakes getting higher, and people drawing hard lines in who they choose to associate with.  Around the time of the 2008 recession and Occupy and ever since, it seems like stories of lifelong friends and family members turning on each other have become commonplace.  Those on different sides of the political spectrum only see each other as caricatures anymore, and to be fair, they often behave as caricatures.

[Frumple]

Hmm, thank you for the replies. I hadn't considered the baby boomer angle, but I also see it here in Australia where there is a certain group of folks who do the same thing.
It feels like the climate in America is getting really toxic. Have you guys noticed that or does it just seem especially bad because I'm a foreigner and not used to the way Americas have their discourse?

Honestly, it's better in some ways than it was a couple decades ago. A good deal of today's shit wouldn't have caused as much of a problem because racist WASP was the default and casual bigoted slurs and dog whistling for KKK types was basically not considered worth censure in a lot of places. We're at something of a peak shitheel at the moment, but part of the reason they're screeching so loudly is because they (the general morass of ideologies behind it) are fucking losing, their base is dying and they're constantly finding out they're reaching the point their bullshit isn't welcome in polite society even obliquely anymore (not that being welcome necessarily stops them).

Add on the (FTFE) media angle going out of its way to magnify everything for profit and it's easy to come to the conclusion everything is particularly terrible when it's arguably more that the terribleness is changing, and in some ways is only so seemingly loud because we've stopped goddamn ignoring it.

... all that said, the right's stochastic terrorism efforts have indeed been louder later, and Trump's rhetoric has emboldened some terrible people to feel like they're okay to spew their hateful shit all over the place. So you're not entirely wrong that shit has been more toxic over the last few years in particular.

[Pumble]

Pretty much what SalmonGod said. I've got family who are Trump supporters, despite having no reason to be so.

The racism? My uncle is a roofer in California. Working that kind of job, in that location, you're bound to have a good 80% of your coworkers be Mexican, and it's not unreasonable to assume that not all of them are completely legal. My uncle loves these guys, and has had an extended network of Mexican friends and their families forever. He invites them home to have dinner with his family, and is always in awe of their work ethic and friendly demeanor.

But when he hears Trump talk about immigration? "Those god-damned Mexican illegals keep hopping the border and ruining everything!"

My uncle's family doesn't make a lot of money, partly because they don't exactly have the highest-paying jobs and partly because he's hilariously bad with money, and numbers/math in general (as a lifelong fisherman, everything is exponential). He firmly supports and believes that Trump is doing what's best for him by cutting social security and giving tax breaks to the uber-rich.

My uncle was diagnosed with kidney cancer a number of years back. Being in a lower income bracket, they couldn't really afford regular medical insurance. And trying to get insurance after you've been diagnosed is a fool's errand, since it's now technically a "pre-existing condition".

But that was back when ACA was in force, and it was specifically through the ACA that he managed to get the operations and specialist treatment necessary. He's been 100% cancer-free since 2015.

When he hears Trump talk about medicare? "That god-damned Obamacare, destroying the medical system and draining our economy dry!"


Muslims, homosexuals, blacks, economy, medicine, science... My uncle has lived a life that directly opposes Trump on almost every single topic. But he listens to Trump, and he believes him. He believes Trump is an expert in every field he claims to be an expert in. He believes Trump is the greatest negotiator and diplomat to have ever lived. He believes that Trump will, truly and wholly, make America great again.

And for every specific instance where Trump's speech conflicts with my uncle's actions? "That doesn't count", or "You don't know enough about it to say".



And those are some of the people who still trust and follow Trump. The ones who simply cannot find a conflict between what Trump says and reality.

The others are people who are just as despicable as Trump, and are happy to finally have an appropriate representative in office.

I'm glad he is cancer free. I had a family member who had the same condition but they didn't make it.

Thank you for the replies so far, I've found it really interesting.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

The atmosphere here is very toxic right now.  Political tension and culture war have always been a thing here, as far as I can tell, going all the way back to the civil war.  But Reagan tapped into something that made it worse.  And it's been accelerating dramatically ever since 9/11.  That's when I started to see divergence growing more extreme, discourse getting more shrill, anxiety over stakes getting higher, and people drawing hard lines in who they choose to associate with.  Around the time of the 2008 recession and Occupy and ever since, it seems like stories of lifelong friends and family members turning on each other have become commonplace.  Those on different sides of the political spectrum only see each other as caricatures anymore, and to be fair, they often behave as caricatures.

At this point I'm gradually cutting ties with my family. Right-wing "friends" were cut off long ago. Not even one of them can get through a five minute conversation without talking about Trump or exposing their bigotries. I heard actual fucking segregationist rhetoric from some corners. All these years, and I never knew how depraved they all really were.

For this, I think I'm almost grateful to Trump. I don't know how or why, but he made all the wretches in my life mark themselves openly.

[Trekkin]

It feels like the climate in America is getting really toxic. Have you guys noticed that or does it just seem especially bad because I'm a foreigner and not used to the way Americas have their discourse?

Yes, and it's largely due to Trump, albeit not directly. See, America's huge and its population is concentrated in a small set of geographically separate cities; if you flipped Australia upside down and superimposed it on the middle of America, it would just about highlight the region we call "flyover country" and usually forget exists despite having, conservatively, five times your population. This mind-boggling size is intentional; the theory was that a country could be physically too big for transient factions to ever assume national power, because while communications moved at the speed of horse it was very unlikely that the angry mob in one part of the country would still be angry by the time they'd written all the other angry mobs from the rest of the country and got a reply, so most people would vote according to their long-term ideological leanings. Alas, nobody in the 1770s saw the Internet coming, and all the cultural and ideological divisions that speed-of-horse communication papered over can now talk at each other in real time.

Trump didn't unlock some mystical Pandora's Box of previously sealed bigotry. He just talked like a Midwestern Boomer on the national stage and brought new people into our national discourse, forcing us all to confront that our ideas about our national identity are all more local than we'd thought. This was always going to happen. Trump just set it off at the worst possible time, when the left was as angry as the right.

[SalmonGod]

It feels like the climate in America is getting really toxic. Have you guys noticed that or does it just seem especially bad because I'm a foreigner and not used to the way Americas have their discourse?

He just talked like a Midwestern Boomer on the national stage

Pretty much, yeah...

[Max™]

The casual usage of the words "symbol of a renewed white identity and common purpose" is horrifying, all the more so because this isn't some powerless fucking whackadoo in a basement being spoken of here... IT'S THE GODDAMN PRESIDENT OF THE USA WHO PREVIOUSLY NOTED THAT THERE ARE FINE PEOPLE WHO HAPPEN TO BE FUCKING NEONAZIS!

[Egan_BW]

For a lot of people, him being a Republican and the president of the united states of america is enough reason to like him.

That reasoning is pretty close to the same reason I supported Obama, so it's a little bit hard for me to blame non-politically-involved people for rooting for our head of state. That's kind of what the position is for, however unfortunate it may be that Trump currently holds it.