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[Kagus]

I'd also like to see the population rate change caused by bringing the USA's infant mortality rate firmly out of the "developing country" range, possibly before poking holes in all the sex ed condoms so that teen pregnancy rates get another healthy boost and shore up the deficit.

As for rat socializing, rats are incredibly social animals. It's considered animal cruelty to only have one by itself, regardless of how much time and attention you give to it, because you can't give them the same kind of ratty attention they need. Humans aren't really that much more social than rats, we just talk more about the weather than they do.

I'm not entirely sure what "millenials can't form relationships and therefore don't have kids" is supposed to mean. I'm reasonably sure a human extinction event due to low interest in procreation would probably encompass a time period large enough that a new group of considerably more virility-adjacent individuals would rise up and do their part. It's... Well, out of the smorgasbord of available apocalyptic scenarios, it's not really the most convincing.

[EnigmaticHat]

Worth pointing out that while the US has a problem with access to mental healthcare, its no worse than our problem with access to healthcare in general.  Our problem is that our healthcare is usually cutting edge*, but some of our mental health providers are very up to date and some of them are back in the stone age.  Its a consequence of not having single payer healthcare system I suspect; the shit with therapists that don't believe certain mental orders exist** wouldn't fly if everything was paid for by the government.  At least I'd hope it wouldn't... I don't actually know.

*which shouldn't be surprising, we do most of the research

**yeah its a thing, especially in places like small towns.  But everywhere really.  Whatever you think the dumbest thing a doctor could believe about mental illness, someone who thinks that is practicing medicine somewhere in the US.

Edit: Anyway, I'm not sure its all the internet.  The amount of weekly hours worked per person in the US has skyrocketed pretty consistently since WW2.  True, the 40+ hour workweek isn't new, but pre-WW2 half of the population wasn't part of the average because they weren't allowed to work.  Back in the 80s you didn't need a full time job to live and a family could have only one breadwinner and that could work.  Now a single household can work 100 hours a week and still struggle to make ends meet, with no real advancement opportunities because "entry level" jobs are now considered a separate track from "professional" jobs.  We've also seen a consolidation of childcare; in the previous century with an extended family you could have 5-10 people raising one kid, now because of time concerns we have one person keep track of twenty kids.  And then said kids go home to watch 3+ hours on their 20 separate TVs because their parents are busy.

Double edit: there's also been a consolidation of care for the elderly, before it was one elderly person for 1-2 kids taking care of them, now we have, what, 10 elderly people to one nurse in an old folk's home?  That number was a complete guess but you get the idea.

[Kagus]

Well, I'll have you know that I went through a bit of an ordeal with a doctor in Norway who pointedly refused to prescribe me antidepressants on recommendation from my psychologist, because she "didn't believe in them" and it "wasn't her job anyways", despite it very specifically being exactly her job.

On the plus side my psychologist managed to get me in to talk with a psychiatrist, who had the capability to prescribe medication, and she ended up eventually being my primary mental health person later on, due to our chemistry.


Although, curiously enough, the GP in question was actually American... She'd moved there with her Norwegian husband and decided "why not get a medical license" since it's free education.

[ChairmanPoo]

I would argue  that  at least in part, she was not wrong.A GP  wouldn't be the go-to person for antidepressants (except if they are comfortable and just for very mild cases). If it was a treatment she waa unfamiliar with, I  think not doing a prescription on the say-so of a psychologist is reasonable (in that regard she's right - it's not her job). Referral to a psychiatry specialist is the reasonable thing under the circumstances.

I certainly wouldn't touch antidepressant management with a flagpole unless it was an absolute emergency and noone else was available. I think this is a reasonable approach. I don't expect psychiatrists to manage cytotoxic chemotherapy either.

[Kagus]

Thing is, that's how this system is set up. The GP is supposed to fill prescriptions for standard antidepressants at the request of a mental health professional (even if psychologists cannot prescribe the medications themselves), unless there's a particular health condition the GP knows about which would prevent their use.

It's not that she was unfamiliar with SSRIs (particularly the most-tested and most-prescribed type, which is what had been suggested for me), she just didn't believe that they did anything beyond placebo. She thought it was a scam, and all these so-called "depressed" people just needed to get out a bit more. No, really, that was her official stance on it. When I went in to talk to her about it after I'd gotten the recommendation from the psychologist, she said "before you go any further, I need to tell you that I don't prescribe antidepressants, as a principle". She also wasn't willing to refer me to anyone who would prescribe them, be it another GP or a psychiatrist. I needed to go back to my psychologist and then wait for him to finagle things behind the scenes (since the ordinary channels you're supposed to follow were in this case being stonewalled by one particular individual) in order to work out an appointment with a psychiatrist, which I shouldn't have needed to do at that point.

Which is great, seeing as she worked for the Student Health Organization at a university. Y'know, one of the hotspots for stress/anxiety/depression-related disorders.

[Loud Whispers]

Donald Trump accuses confused Baltic leaders of starting the Balkan wars
The geography memes jack

Latvia is rightful Serbian clay

[JoshuaFH]

Edit: Anyway, I'm not sure its all the internet.  The amount of weekly hours worked per person in the US has skyrocketed pretty consistently since WW2.  True, the 40+ hour workweek isn't new, but pre-WW2 half of the population wasn't part of the average because they weren't allowed to work.  Back in the 80s you didn't need a full time job to live and a family could have only one breadwinner and that could work.  Now a single household can work 100 hours a week and still struggle to make ends meet, with no real advancement opportunities because "entry level" jobs are now considered a separate track from "professional" jobs.  We've also seen a consolidation of childcare; in the previous century with an extended family you could have 5-10 people raising one kid, now because of time concerns we have one person keep track of twenty kids.  And then said kids go home to watch 3+ hours on their 20 separate TVs because their parents are busy.

Double edit: there's also been a consolidation of care for the elderly, before it was one elderly person for 1-2 kids taking care of them, now we have, what, 10 elderly people to one nurse in an old folk's home?  That number was a complete guess but you get the idea.

I think you got it spot on EH. It's not that The Young People are choosing to have less sex, and by consequence less children, but rather that they can't and the society and culture they live in actively hates out their opportunities. I also think there's a grim malaise towards the future, with the outcome of the future seeming more and more dire by the day, generally disincentivizing family starting, whereas a more hopeful and optimistic outlook would allow people to feel more secure starting a family.

[sluissa]

Edit: Anyway, I'm not sure its all the internet.  The amount of weekly hours worked per person in the US has skyrocketed pretty consistently since WW2.  True, the 40+ hour workweek isn't new, but pre-WW2 half of the population wasn't part of the average because they weren't allowed to work.  Back in the 80s you didn't need a full time job to live and a family could have only one breadwinner and that could work.  Now a single household can work 100 hours a week and still struggle to make ends meet, with no real advancement opportunities because "entry level" jobs are now considered a separate track from "professional" jobs.  We've also seen a consolidation of childcare; in the previous century with an extended family you could have 5-10 people raising one kid, now because of time concerns we have one person keep track of twenty kids.  And then said kids go home to watch 3+ hours on their 20 separate TVs because their parents are busy.

Double edit: there's also been a consolidation of care for the elderly, before it was one elderly person for 1-2 kids taking care of them, now we have, what, 10 elderly people to one nurse in an old folk's home?  That number was a complete guess but you get the idea.

I think you got it spot on EH. It's not that The Young People are choosing to have less sex, and by consequence less children, but rather that they can't and the society and culture they live in actively hates out their opportunities. I also think there's a grim malaise towards the future, with the outcome of the future seeming more and more dire by the day, generally disincentivizing family starting, whereas a more hopeful and optimistic outlook would allow people to feel more secure starting a family.

I'm not quite "Young" anymore. But I have felt this way since my mid 20s at least. I can't support a child and even if I could I wouldn't want to force another life into the world to deal with the shit I deal with every day which is likely to trend worse and very likely to hit a critical point and get exponentially worse sometime while they're alive even if I'm unlikely to see the worst of it. Nope, I'm not putting someone else through that. Adoption has crossed my mind though, if I were to ever have a solid enough footing and someone I thought I could raise a kid with.

[SalmonGod]

Edit: Anyway, I'm not sure its all the internet.  The amount of weekly hours worked per person in the US has skyrocketed pretty consistently since WW2.  True, the 40+ hour workweek isn't new, but pre-WW2 half of the population wasn't part of the average because they weren't allowed to work.  Back in the 80s you didn't need a full time job to live and a family could have only one breadwinner and that could work.  Now a single household can work 100 hours a week and still struggle to make ends meet, with no real advancement opportunities because "entry level" jobs are now considered a separate track from "professional" jobs.  We've also seen a consolidation of childcare; in the previous century with an extended family you could have 5-10 people raising one kid, now because of time concerns we have one person keep track of twenty kids.  And then said kids go home to watch 3+ hours on their 20 separate TVs because their parents are busy.

Double edit: there's also been a consolidation of care for the elderly, before it was one elderly person for 1-2 kids taking care of them, now we have, what, 10 elderly people to one nurse in an old folk's home?  That number was a complete guess but you get the idea.

I think you got it spot on EH. It's not that The Young People are choosing to have less sex, and by consequence less children, but rather that they can't and the society and culture they live in actively hates out their opportunities. I also think there's a grim malaise towards the future, with the outcome of the future seeming more and more dire by the day, generally disincentivizing family starting, whereas a more hopeful and optimistic outlook would allow people to feel more secure starting a family.

Depressing comics about it being impossible to schedule things with friends are passed around daily by my friends on Facebook... who I rarely see in person.

And yeah... when I think about the future, I regret that I had children.  I've heard from plenty of others that they abstain from children on ethical grounds due to their perception of the state of the world and its future.

On the epidemic of loneliness among men, specifically... I think it's a neglected issue that many men suffer isolation enforced by toxic women in their personal lives, because when they find themselves in that situation, there's currently no point of leverage to allow for any meaningful responses other than suffer in silence or leave.  And when children are involved, decent men will suffer in silence.  I don't think that's a problem on the same order of magnitude as something like work hours.  But I think it is possibly quite a large one anyway, and the scale may not be recognized because the current social climate and the nature of living in that type of situation make it very difficult for men to speak out.  Loneliness among men is a subject that's gaining plenty of attention lately, but that dynamic is something I never see acknowledged.

[Max™]

Donald Trump accuses confused Baltic leaders of starting the Balkan wars
The geography memes jack

Latvia is rightful Serbian clay

Hey hey hey, back the fuck off, I could rattle off arbitrary facts from randomly chosen spots on a globe all day long but if you asked me to say, draw and/or label anything east of germany, I gotta be straight up here: I'm just gonna draw squiggles and start cramming y's and z's next to consonants on long names tending to end in -nia's where possible as confidently as I can and expect nobody else to know what's going on over there well enough to call me on it.

[misko27]

Donald Trump accuses confused Baltic leaders of starting the Balkan wars
The geography memes jack

Latvia is rightful Serbian clay

All is rightful Serbian land. Remove potato from the premises, yuo are of worst balt.

[Rowanas]

snip

I think the West, at least, has a pretty grim culture that requires men to be manly where that is a penalty, and to conform entirely to a modern way of acting (passive and nonaggressive) where that is a penalty.  As such, a man who complains or fights is less manly or a shitlord, respectively.  We are vilified in every aspect, and it is (and the stats back me up here) ending in suicide.  Women can shout and scream and attack, but a man who wants to retain his standing and his freedom has no recourse, and it's making us more bitter, bottled and lonely.

[Loud Whispers]

Hey hey hey, back the fuck off, I could rattle off arbitrary facts from randomly chosen spots on a globe all day long but if you asked me to say, draw and/or label anything east of germany, I gotta be straight up here: I'm just gonna draw squiggles and start cramming y's and z's next to consonants on long names tending to end in -nia's where possible as confidently as I can and expect nobody else to know what's going on over there well enough to call me on it.

If you get a paradox interactive addiction you should be able to cure your geography woes. However, you will be addicted to swedish map painting simulators

All is rightful Serbian land. Remove potato from the premises, yuo are of worst balt.

tupac aliv an make album in ESTONIA

Inb4 USA goes to war with China to avenge pearl harbour

[Rowanas]

Hey hey hey, back the fuck off, I could rattle off arbitrary facts from randomly chosen spots on a globe all day long but if you asked me to say, draw and/or label anything east of germany, I gotta be straight up here: I'm just gonna draw squiggles and start cramming y's and z's next to consonants on long names tending to end in -nia's where possible as confidently as I can and expect nobody else to know what's going on over there well enough to call me on it.

If you get a paradox interactive addiction you should be able to cure your geography woes. However, you will be addicted to swedish map painting simulators

I need to get back into those.  My steam quote is still "Portugal won't subjugate itself".  i'm sick of those incorrect-spanish-speaking bastards taking MY NEW WORLD from me.

All is rightful Serbian land. Remove potato from the premises, yuo are of worst balt.

tupac aliv an make album in ESTONIA

Inb4 USA goes to war with China to avenge pearl harbour

Or the greatest insult, accuse China of the Rape of Nanking, then invade.  I'll take odds on that, actually.

[Loud Whispers]

Or the greatest insult, accuse China of the Rape of Nanking, then invade.  I'll take odds on that, actually.

Well he already insulted Macron for France losing WWII, as if they did so by choice

I need to get back into those.  My steam quote is still "Portugal won't subjugate itself".  i'm sick of those incorrect-spanish-speaking bastards taking MY NEW WORLD from me.

Richtagul is bae, the trick is to be their best friend until you inevitably personal union them. Then all of their new world becomes 'our' new world ;]