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[smjjames]

I'm curious how you build a democracy where people can't decide to elect one king and an array of yes-men, and also where they must decide to keep the government running.

A British democracy where the Monarch is unelectable and therefore cannot be elected, while a Prime Minister with a cabinet of yes men would not be able to get anything done because all other branches of government could overturn them as easily as turning their hands. The only thing is that there is no obligation to keep the government running, so it can be dissolved and remade when necessary

I thought Trekkin was referring to government funding, not dissolving a government coalition and starting over if it wasn't working. The President can't dissolve Congress, though Congress can do things to themselves, as they did during the Civil War. Though that was as extreme a situation as it gets as far as Congress goes.

[Kagus]

so Kagus' flippancy above is actually more clever than he intended:

I'll have you know that I intended for that flippancy to be extremely clever.

[Max™]

I mean, we were great because we beat Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan who allied with them... but you probably aren't allowed to disparage Nazis at Fox anymore because hey, there are good people on both sides right?

The deeper irony would be that the credit for defeating Germany lies mostly with the USSR, which makes it tempting to look at this sort of gaffe as a particularly turgid protrusion into Orwellia, but from viewing the clip it looks more like a slip that has unintentionally articulated much of the hollowness of patriotic appeals today in their substance and presentation.

That's shallow irony at best, as it isn't really ironic at all, and I refuse to abide by the use of the word in that sense as anything but an inferior broadening due to that silly canadian wench.

You don't think it's ironic that someone boasting about their country's defeat of communists would mistakenly use a war won by communist allies as an example?

It's ironic to use ironic when you mean coincidental.

[misko27]

I mean, we were great because we beat Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan who allied with them... but you probably aren't allowed to disparage Nazis at Fox anymore because hey, there are good people on both sides right?

The deeper irony would be that the credit for defeating Germany lies mostly with the USSR, which makes it tempting to look at this sort of gaffe as a particularly turgid protrusion into Orwellia, but from viewing the clip it looks more like a slip that has unintentionally articulated much of the hollowness of patriotic appeals today in their substance and presentation.

Anyone who tries to tell me that Enver Hoxha and Marshal Tito did not personally storm Berlin and strangle Hitler to death with his own underwear is an American or Soviet stooge. Maybe both.

[Max™]

I think you mean Larry and Shemp fingerjabbed Hitler before pushing him over a crouching Moe so he fell down a flight of stairs and broke his neck.

Nyuk-nyuk-nyuk.

This was ironic btw.

[Reelya]

I mean, we were great because we beat Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan who allied with them... but you probably aren't allowed to disparage Nazis at Fox anymore because hey, there are good people on both sides right?

The deeper irony would be that the credit for defeating Germany lies mostly with the USSR, which makes it tempting to look at this sort of gaffe as a particularly turgid protrusion into Orwellia, but from viewing the clip it looks more like a slip that has unintentionally articulated much of the hollowness of patriotic appeals today in their substance and presentation.

That's shallow irony at best, as it isn't really ironic at all, and I refuse to abide by the use of the word in that sense as anything but an inferior broadening due to that silly canadian wench.

You don't think it's ironic that someone boasting about their country's defeat of communists would mistakenly use a war won by communist allies as an example?

It's ironic to use ironic when you mean coincidental.

It's no more coincidental than the examples given for situational irony:

http://cisl.edu/wordpress/lessons/coincidence-vs-irony-in-english.htm

Coincidence is often confused with situational irony. Situational irony is when the end of a situation is VERY different than what you would expect. For example: Your hairdresser has really, really bad hair. Your dentist has terrible teeth. Your French grammar teacher makes mistakes when speaking French. The winner of the national spelling bee misspells a simple word. An apple farmer hates apples. In each of these examples, you would expect a certain situation or characteristic from these people. Instead, you get the opposite. Surprising! And ironic!

Saying USA beat "Communist Japan" when in fact that war would have been lost without communist allies is more than coincidence, it's situational irony as outlined above.

[MrRoboto75]

I think you mean Larry and Shemp fingerjabbed Hitler before pushing him over a crouching Moe so he fell down a flight of stairs and broke his neck.

Nyuk-nyuk-nyuk.

This was ironic btw.

Wise guy, eh?

[Kagus]

I mean, we were great because we beat Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan who allied with them... but you probably aren't allowed to disparage Nazis at Fox anymore because hey, there are good people on both sides right?

The deeper irony would be that the credit for defeating Germany lies mostly with the USSR, which makes it tempting to look at this sort of gaffe as a particularly turgid protrusion into Orwellia, but from viewing the clip it looks more like a slip that has unintentionally articulated much of the hollowness of patriotic appeals today in their substance and presentation.

Anyone who tries to tell me that Enver Hoxha and Marshal Tito did not personally storm Berlin and strangle Hitler to death with his own underwear is an American or Soviet stooge. Maybe both.

I'm leaning more towards it being Peter King and Leslie Cuthbertson as part of their successful two-man invasion of Berlin.

That or some madman just gave Jack Churchill some more arrows for his longbow, and he finished off the rest of the bastards while simultaneously playing the bagpipes.

[Max™]

I mean, we were great because we beat Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan who allied with them... but you probably aren't allowed to disparage Nazis at Fox anymore because hey, there are good people on both sides right?

The deeper irony would be that the credit for defeating Germany lies mostly with the USSR, which makes it tempting to look at this sort of gaffe as a particularly turgid protrusion into Orwellia, but from viewing the clip it looks more like a slip that has unintentionally articulated much of the hollowness of patriotic appeals today in their substance and presentation.

That's shallow irony at best, as it isn't really ironic at all, and I refuse to abide by the use of the word in that sense as anything but an inferior broadening due to that silly canadian wench.

You don't think it's ironic that someone boasting about their country's defeat of communists would mistakenly use a war won by communist allies as an example?

It's ironic to use ironic when you mean coincidental.

It's no more coincidental than the examples given for situational irony:

http://cisl.edu/wordpress/lessons/coincidence-vs-irony-in-english.htm

Coincidence is often confused with situational irony. Situational irony is when the end of a situation is VERY different than what you would expect. For example: Your hairdresser has really, really bad hair. Your dentist has terrible teeth. Your French grammar teacher makes mistakes when speaking French. The winner of the national spelling bee misspells a simple word. An apple farmer hates apples. In each of these examples, you would expect a certain situation or characteristic from these people. Instead, you get the opposite. Surprising! And ironic!

Saying USA beat "Communist Japan" when in fact that war would have been lost without communist allies is more than coincidence, it's situational irony as outlined above.

Which is the shittiest form of irony as it only gets used because people were using ironic to mean something other than it's literal intention, which is irony!

[Reelya]

Proper irony is just sarcasm, which is the lowest form of wit. People act like "irony" is some magically great thing and that people "doing irony" wrong as somehow at fault. It's pretty silly. going off dictionary definitions:

noun: irony

    the expression of one's meaning by using language that normally signifies the opposite, typically for humorous or emphatic effect.

Which is plain sarcasm, and not relevant in this case. However, the other two dictionary definitions are relevant:

a state of affairs or an event that seems deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often wryly amusing as a result.

"We beat Communist Japan" fits this one.

a literary technique, originally used in Greek tragedy, by which the full significance of a character's words or actions is clear to the audience or reader although unknown to the character.

I'd say it also fits with this one too. How contrary the character's words were in relation to the real situation was clear to the audience but unknown to the character.

For example, say there was a story where the main character someone killed someone they believed was a Soviet agent, yet it turns out they weren't a Soviet agent after all, and the person who helped them kill the "agent" turns out to the the real Soviet agent. That's clearly ironic but it maps directly onto the current question.

[hector13]

That’s dramatic irony.

Also, was Japan communist? ‘cause I don’t think they were Communist. Then again I haven’t read/watched whatever that came from, so I guess y’all are more interested in discussing irony instead of politics in the politics thread.

*beat*

How ironic.

[Reelya]

It's relevant because it was a statement made by a political commentator on Fox.

Japan was a fascist dictatorship and definitely not communist.

[scriver]

Yet what do you get if you combine a hammer and a sickle? An axe. Coincidence? I think not!

Also this is your timely reminder that kings have been democratically elected for longer than they have been inherited. Nothing prevents monarchies from being democratic! Well, except the outvoted monarch, possibly...

[Reelya]

Everything is democratic. Sticking a pitchfork through a soldier's belly is the traditional form of voting.

[Egan_BW]

Democracy is proportional to the number of non-nobles in the military.

So fight against fighter jets and other powerful weapons that can be used by only one well-trained and well-compensated soldier! More riflemen!