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[redwallzyl]

https://www.npr.org/2018/07/06/626525274/get-to-know-andrew-wheeler-ex-coal-lobbyist-with-inside-track-to-lead-epa
FFS

[PTTG??]

Maybe you should try the reverse....

You didn't answer the questions, you just smugly implied that everyone besides you is a media addicted sheeperson.

[Trekkin]

Maybe you should try the reverse....

You didn't answer the questions, you just smugly implied that everyone besides you is a media addicted sheeperson.

Permit me to try to shed some light on events. From the lawsuit and articles I previously cited, I get this order of events:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

11/01/08   MAVNI announced with a cap of 1000 recruits with medical or language training
01/01/09   MAVNI begins recruiting
Early 12   All MAVNI recruits must now undergo SSBI
09/01/12   MAVNI info paper (only citizens can be officers, etc)
02/20/13   MAVNI evaluated favorably
10/01/14   DACA applicants can go through MAVNI
06/24/16 MAVNI closed
09/30/16   MAVNI reopened via Military Accessions Vital to the National Interest Pilot Program Extension with new accession requirements, and that "MAVNIs will be designated . . . as not eligible for an interim security clearance or access until the completion of first enlistment and a positive national security determination is made by the DoD CAF"
11/08/16   Trump Election
01/06/17   " MAVNI enlistees . . . are ineligible to reclassify, apply for officer producing programs or positions/programs that require a security clearance during their initial term of enlistment."
Early 17? MAVNI suspended, citing backlog
01/20/17   Trump Inauguration
07/31/17   Kelly Chief of Staff Start
10/13/17   MAVNI applicants need to finish security clearance before starting basic training

From this, we can glean that MAVNI was in trouble prior to Trump, possibly because of its association with DACA -- somewhere in the mess of articles above there was some mention of DACA folks not having the cultural/lingual familiarity one might want of an interpreter, as well as a mention of MAVNI recruits being used as mechanics and so forth. However, the blanket ban on MAVNI recruits in officer-producing programs only happened after his election, and the move to delay the MAVNI recruits entering basic training only happened after Kelly became chief of staff, and that's in concert with the bit that made it more difficult for them to acquire citizenship.

Thus, it would appear that the program itself died a partly expected death after having been forced to accommodate people it was never meant for (and being intended to fill a finite skills gap anyway), and Trump inherited it at that point. Now, there were better ways to handle the people already in the pipeline via executive order, but all Trump had to do for this particular outcome was to wait.

EDIT:

"Would a xenophobic bigot intent on purging the military in pursuit of his racist ideology be content at forty expelled following a rules change half a year ago?"

Yes, because it's not about 40. It's about finding one immigrant to perp walk in front of the Fox News cameras, or one denaturalization for Hannity to crow about, or one NFL player forced to stand, or whatever else reeks of xenophobia and mindless jingoism. Trump has decided that his best bet is to just appeal to the worst Americans and hope for a Republican majority across the board in the fall.

[Shazbot]

Maybe you should try the reverse....

You didn't answer the questions, you just smugly implied that everyone besides you is a media addicted sheeperson.

It wasn't a question worth answering. What you need to understand is that your perception of animus does not mean everything that happens is because of that animus. You have to consider that this is all in your head. Even when the animus is real, Hitler doesn't get up and brush his teeth because he hates Jews. Trekkin has explained the actual timeline very well. He has the same conclusion that it is a plot to appeal to the worst of the country, however. There is, again, a perceived animus among his supporters. But what if it isn't some racial bigotry but instead a wish to stop cartels, coyotes, border-crossing rapes, children being abandoned by smugglers in the desert, or dead bodies and women's underwear showing in people's back yards? What if there is a genuine human compassion to stop all of the evils brought about by criminal enterprises enriching themselves on human smuggling and drug mules, and a desire to stabilize the countries they are fleeing from? These are the reasons I want the border enforced. Are you going to just scream "nazi" at me and pretend this is all a lie?

[MrRoboto75]

Hitler doesn't get up and brush his teeth because he hates Jews.

Hitler doesn't shower and eat bacon 'n' eggs because he hates Jews.

He probably really doesn't eat bagels tho.  Because he hates Jews.

[ChairmanPoo]

Hitler's testicle
Spins madly, out of control
Racist, round and smooth

[Trekkin]

But what if it isn't some racial bigotry but instead a wish to stop cartels, coyotes, border-crossing rapes, children being abandoned by smugglers in the desert, or dead bodies and women's underwear showing in people's back yards? What if there is a genuine human compassion to stop all of the evils brought about by criminal enterprises enriching themselves on human smuggling and drug mules, and a desire to stabilize the countries they are fleeing from?

If that were so, we would expect a border enforcement strategy not based on deterrence -- and the Trump administration has repeatedly admitted that family separations and so forth are attempts at exactly that.

People do not cross the border on a whim; by the time they've reached our border they've already fled a long way and have in most cases very little to go back to. When we promise to make it painful for them to be caught, they have little alternative but to try not to get caught, and thereby provide the coyotes with more business. Similarly, our war on drugs has driven up the price of drugs and in so doing motivated the cartels and the drug mules, and you could make an admittedly more complicated argument that criminalizing prostitution enables if not drives sex trafficking, which is a larger portion of the human smuggling than you'd assume.

If you wanted a common thread running through all of this, you could do worse than to say that many of the crimes associated with the border are acts of desperation and people preying upon anyone desperate enough to do them. We have some sense of how to solve problems like that, mostly by providing people a path out that's more attractive than continuing criminality -- and recognizing that such a path has certain requirements to actually be financially feasible as an alternative and accessible to the people we're trying to help.

Instead, the Trump administration's actions have been congruent with a wish to make life as painful as possible for immigrants, despite that pain motivating a lot of what we wish they'd stop doing. It is therefore difficult to credit claims that they are somehow motivated primarily by security concerns.

[EnigmaticHat]

Maybe you should try the reverse....

You didn't answer the questions, you just smugly implied that everyone besides you is a media addicted sheeperson.

It wasn't a question worth answering. What you need to understand is that your perception of animus does not mean everything that happens is because of that animus. You have to consider that this is all in your head. Even when the animus is real, Hitler doesn't get up and brush his teeth because he hates Jews. Trekkin has explained the actual timeline very well. He has the same conclusion that it is a plot to appeal to the worst of the country, however. There is, again, a perceived animus among his supporters. But what if it isn't some racial bigotry but instead a wish to stop cartels, coyotes, border-crossing rapes, children being abandoned by smugglers in the desert, or dead bodies and women's underwear showing in people's back yards? What if there is a genuine human compassion to stop all of the evils brought about by criminal enterprises enriching themselves on human smuggling and drug mules, and a desire to stabilize the countries they are fleeing from? These are the reasons I want the border enforced. Are you going to just scream "nazi" at me and pretend this is all a lie?

What if everyone in the world got a free pony?

[hector13]

Well he combined a strawman with a Godwin there. I guess that means he wins the internet?

Not really sure why green card holders need extra vetting for the military though. They were vetted for the green card in the first place, after all.

Also not really sure how making it harder for green card holders to join the military contributes to border security.

[MrRoboto75]

Maybe you should try the reverse....

You didn't answer the questions, you just smugly implied that everyone besides you is a media addicted sheeperson.

It wasn't a question worth answering. What you need to understand is that your perception of animus does not mean everything that happens is because of that animus. You have to consider that this is all in your head. Even when the animus is real, Hitler doesn't get up and brush his teeth because he hates Jews. Trekkin has explained the actual timeline very well. He has the same conclusion that it is a plot to appeal to the worst of the country, however. There is, again, a perceived animus among his supporters. But what if it isn't some racial bigotry but instead a wish to stop cartels, coyotes, border-crossing rapes, children being abandoned by smugglers in the desert, or dead bodies and women's underwear showing in people's back yards? What if there is a genuine human compassion to stop all of the evils brought about by criminal enterprises enriching themselves on human smuggling and drug mules, and a desire to stabilize the countries they are fleeing from? These are the reasons I want the border enforced. Are you going to just scream "nazi" at me and pretend this is all a lie?

What if everyone in the world got a free pony?

Communism

[PTTG??]

That would make horses by far the largest portion of animal biomass on the planet.

The resulting famine and plagues would be only slightly molified by the ready supply of meat.

[andrea]

There is an xkcd for that. The human biomass seems.... half of cattle at a glance. A pony could be considered 3-4 times the mass of an human, so multiply the human blob by that to get the hypothetical pony biomass. It would indeed come out on the top, although that chart is mammals only. Bacteria outweigh us a thousand to one, say the alt text, but that is distributed among many species, so horses probably still get the first place.

[Dunamisdeos]

A genuine compassionate wish to help one's fellow man does not manifest as hurting them as much as possible until they go away and die somewhere else. I'm glad we want the border enforced because we care just enough about illegals to keep them from dying on our side of the border, and I'm sure someone is dying on the other side in sound relief because they were so heroically rescued from dying in Arizona by ICE (Incredible Compassion Elites).
 
Saying that just because almost every action or policy that has been enacted by this administration has had a measurably negative influence on immigrants (be they illegal or no) doesn't mean that they don't like immigrants is not rational. It's a transparent excuse not to address the issue at hand. Nobody is talking about anything analogous to Hitler brushing his teeth because he hates Jews, we are talking about Hitler hurting Jews because he hates Jews.
 
It's not relevant that the methods in place for immigrants to gain citizenry were "in trouble" before insofar as the current administration goes. They saw that situation and decided to make active use of it to remove as many immigrants from service as that situation allowed. They are as equally wrong for it as if they had drafted it up themselves from scratch.

[redwallzyl]

What if everyone in the world got a free pony?

The resulting pony inflation would plunge the world into the great pony depression and herds of starving pony's devour everything in a great feeding frenzy leading to the destruction of human civilization.

[Starver]

Really, the only reason not to try to fully process the backlog, but to instead let the 'easy' immigrations happen (those money/power-backed, both super-rich persons and staff for the super-rich *cough*Mar-A-Lago*/cough*) the 'easy' refusals happen (actual known criminals) and then just throw back most of the people in the middle (maybe honest, maybe not, but apparently nobody has tried to find out) is if you're afraid that due process and impartial scrutiny will let more rightful immigrants in (whilst also identifying others who shouldn't be.

If you can't stack the review system in your 'denialist' favour quickly enough, just make it so that less people get their fair treatment and pretend they've been denied for good reasons. It looks good for your uncritical (or anticritical) supporters, without even a piece of paper saying "send 90% of them back, regardless". Ditto treat any doubt (unreasonable, as well as reasonable!) about legitimacy, or about legal guardianship, or about intentions upon passing through official channels as "guilty unless proven innocent", while withholding the opportunity to prove as legitimate, honourable or even just desperate to avoid a known bad fate and entitled to the compassion of the state by various national and international laws.

But, hey, sweep them under the carpet and dump that carpet over the neighbour's fence, why don'tya?