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[Trekkin]

And one senator literally made the same argument I've made for a while- if it's my data, I want a cut of the monetization.

Arguably that's already priced into the ad burden you deal with for using social media, in the sense that you'd see more ads if they could only sell ad space rather than targeted ad space.

There's also the issue that sluissa raised: they literally couldn't pay you what your data is worth because American currency doesn't have units small enough to compensate you for the marginal effect of adding your data to the database.

Besides, ownership of data is a nontrivial question. If I sit on a park bench and count how many people pass by, do I own that count or do they each own 1/people of where they were that day?

[nenjin]

Depends on the space. A public park is by definition public; neither you nor any person walking through it can claim to own the fruits of the endeavor based on you or they being there without the express permission of the body that actually owns the park. (In this case, a city government can give people the right to use a public space for a commercial venture and profit from it.)

That is not the same as a private website that people willingly enter, put in their personal information and use.

As another example, if you catalog everyone that enters a restaurant you own, you could reasonably be considered to own that data. You own the space and people made the deliberate choice to patronize your establishment, along with the understanding that you would be collecting metadata from their attendance to do with what you will.

[Rolan7]

And one senator literally made the same argument I've made for a while- if it's my data, I want a cut of the monetization.

Problem is, each person's data is worth next to nothing. It's only when you scale it up to 2 billion users does it mean you can make something off of it. Your data alone might be worth 2 pennies over a month... Optimistically.

On average a person's data is worth enough to Facebook that they can provide the service for free (and make a profit).

I only caught bits of the hearing while driving, and my position going in was "Of *course* they use your data.  That was always and obviously their business model, they aren't running a charity."
But as the initial questions seemed to point out, it isn't the business model that's the problem - it's that users are unaware of it.  "The users/customers should know better" is a terrible argument.  Really it was only obvious to me because I was working with computers already.

Also I'm pretty sure Facebook didn't properly protect identifiable user information from advertisers, much less the Cambridge Analytica crap.  But I need to listen to the hearing.

[Max™]

Seems the point is to not use social media, seriously it's great guys, come join me!

[sluissa]

And one senator literally made the same argument I've made for a while- if it's my data, I want a cut of the monetization.

Problem is, each person's data is worth next to nothing. It's only when you scale it up to 2 billion users does it mean you can make something off of it. Your data alone might be worth 2 pennies over a month... Optimistically.

On average a person's data is worth enough to Facebook that they can provide the service for free (and make a profit).

I only caught bits of the hearing while driving, and my position going in was "Of *course* they use your data.  That was always and obviously their business model, they aren't running a charity."
But as the initial questions seemed to point out, it isn't the business model that's the problem - it's that users are unaware of it.  "The users/customers should know better" is a terrible argument.  Really it was only obvious to me because I was working with computers already.

Also I'm pretty sure Facebook didn't properly protect identifiable user information from advertisers, much less the Cambridge Analytica crap.  But I need to listen to the hearing.

It really was just a notable case that came to light where Facebook failed to fulfill their responsibilities. They were told a while back that while they could use the data themselves they couldn't just wholesale it out to third parties. And because they'd already been doing it they were supposed to make sure anyone they'd already sold it to had deleted it. Facebook did a minimal "please delete" message to everyone but never really followed through on double checking it. Not that you really could if they wanted to keep it without Facebook knowing, but Facebook really didn't try hard enough to get by with that excuse.

[Rolan7]

That's about what I thought, thanks for confirming it!

Seems the point is to not use social media, seriously it's great guys, come join me!

I only use it very rarely to communicate with family, heh.  One thing I had actually forgotten was that the mobile app tracks your location.  I haven't had the app installed in years, and you have to grant it that permission pretty explicitly in Android, but I could see that sneaking past people or getting forgotten.

[Max™]

I gave up on even that, last time I communicated with my mom was via email a few months ago, no clue what my sisters are doing, and I don't really care: family are not integral components you must keep up with at all times even to the point of sacrificing your own sanity and peace of mind.

You totally get to pick your family, contrary to common belief, they did fine for all of human history before you could be updated each time their baby farted, they'll do fine now.

Also: Zuckerberg sweating is hilarious, fuck that guy.

[SalmonGod]

Social media really is great.  I like it.  But I do understand that I'm compromised in many ways by my participation.  And it sucks.  But Zuckerberg, as shitty as he is, isn't the problem.  The problem is our socioeconomic environment ensures that the likes of Facebook will out-compete an organization that provides a social media platform that is everything we really want.

[Max™]

I'm over into the "actually autistic" side of asperger's so I only bothered with social shit to help the missus out as I was worried that she was like catching my tardishness and figured it would be good for her to socialize with people more.

It made us both depressed as fuck until we quit it completely, I am dubious of anyone who claims social media makes them happier, and assume you're either in denial or the one person in exactly the sweet spot for it to work out.

[Starver]

Seems the point is to not use social media, seriously it's great guys, come join me!

Already there brother(/sister/other)! This kind of forum is as social as I get.

People I met on usenet get to meet me IRL (but only really know me by my usenet id only). Some select people on a different forum might have learnt my local BBS identity from ten years before that, and other local people on that BBS will have (those several decades ago) met me in a sort of alias/real-name casual basis, but I haven't kept in touch with them.

I'm not saying it's a challenge to find out who I really am, and even what my physical avatar looks like. There are 'selfies' of me, out there, but not linked to my legal name; there are photos of me as a child that have been digitised by others (mostly in a group setting, only really interesting to the original group members and maybe relatives of those) and include my real name, but they are historic and not really algorithmically linkable to any of my current online presences in any easy way.

I don't think I'll ever set up a @realMyIdentity twitter account (if any at all, it'd be something usefully aliased/impersonal), and I'm fairly certain that I'd never end up posting stuff like "A TOTAL WITCH HUNT!!!" or "Attorney–client privilege is dead!" on my personal/professional feed. Not that I think anybody sane would post such things, those are just random examples of things that (if I posted them) I would expect to cause someone close to me to then confiscate my phone from me for a good few hours of 'cool down' period, lest I say some total batshit crazy stuff in my next few tweets.

[misko27]

Because phones are for people with social skills. Granted, so is facebook, but I don't use that either.

Anyway, my headphones went and died and in the process of attempting a fix I've had to uninstall my audio drivers, so I can't hear the rest of the testimony. I bet I know how it ends though: "We'll do better." So much for those Presidential ambitions, huh Zuck?

[Max™]

Oh god, we're old...

[WealthyRadish]

There seems to be a number of inherent conflicts here that aren't going to get resolved.

The legislators want facebook to police its users content, but also don't want facebook to control how it polices content.
AI will make things better by making it practically possible to automatically police to an extent previously unfathomable, but we ourselves can't decide what to police.
Advertising is a great and noble service that consumers are but too glad to subject themselves to, except when it's a vile instrument of deception and propaganda.
Regulating facebook seems necessary, but nobody knows how to do it without asking facebook.
Facebook the business is a monopolist interested only in defending current and future profits, but its leadership profess noble ideals and promise to behave responsibly.
Facebook is a global behemoth with an incomprehensibly diverse influx of competing interests, but it's of strategic interest that such a global behemoth exist and be run by Americans.
Facebook could do all kinds of nasty and scary things with their data, but they don't currently so there's no harm done and nothing to punish.
Etc etc etc

[Dunamisdeos]

Facebook brought in over 40 billion dollars in revenue in 2017.

At the end of that year, they had 2.2 billion active users.

It's not pennies, it's just north of 18 dollars per person per year.

[nenjin]

And this is why I stopped inputting data, joining groups or uploading most photos to Facebook before I was even out of college. Something just struck me as inherintly stupid about answering every question Facebook wanted an answer to. Especially when it came to religious or political affiliation. The only reason I use it now is because Facebook Messenger is the only way the family seems capable of talking to each other as a group.