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[misko27]

Oh you know, I forgot about Jon Stewart's piece on Trump from 2011.

This is the origin of the NYC/Trump feud.

[Loud Whispers]

The wars of the roses mention, as I elaborated to SMJJames, was that it itself is a profound fabrication of what actually transpired. Hell, the House of Tudor did not even use a white rose in its heraldry at the time!

Of all the things you could have picked you picked... This? The war of the roses is not a profound fabrication; you're confusing the history with the dramatisation and subsequent mythologies accrued by such hacks as Shakespeare thereafter in his history plays

If you want to see what profound fabrication looks like, there is a fantastic "history" written that details how the exiled Brutus of Troy conquers Britain from the race of giants that inhabited the isles, with all Kings descended from Brutus. We wuz trojans

[Reelya]

Before that however we were all Atlanteans, and Lemurians before that.

Theosophy for the win. Lemurians, our ancestors, were three-eyed four-armed egg-laying brown hermaphrodite giants. Beat that theory.

[Starver]

It's turtles all the way down...

[Wolfhunter107]

The wars of the roses mention, as I elaborated to SMJJames, was that it itself is a profound fabrication of what actually transpired. Hell, the House of Tudor did not even use a white rose in its heraldry at the time!

Of all the things you could have picked you picked... This? The war of the roses is not a profound fabrication; you're confusing the history with the dramatisation and subsequent mythologies accrued by such hacks as Shakespeare thereafter in his history plays

If you want to see what profound fabrication looks like, there is a fantastic "history" written that details how the exiled Brutus of Troy conquers Britain from the race of giants that inhabited the isles, with all Kings descended from Brutus. We wuz trojans

The French did the same thing before the Revolution. They even Bastilled a guy once for claiming that they weren't descended from Trojans.

[Reelya]

http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/leaders/where-malcolm-turnbull-went-wrong-on-phone-with-donald-trump/news-story/edd290155a7b8ad948afa8ea1a4a7fb6

THE former head of the CIA says Malcolm Turnbull made a fatal error in his explosive phone conversation with Donald Trump.

Michael Morell, deputy director of the Central Intelligence Agency and acting director in 2011 and 2012-13, said the Prime Minister should not have tried to talk about the refugee arrangement with the US President.

The thorny subject of the “dumb deal” for America to take asylum-seekers from Manus and Nauru reportedly caused Mr Trump to become aggressive, hold the phone away from his ear and put an early end to the conversation.

Ah right ... so basically talking to Trump is like trying to teach a pet baboon to use a sit-on toilet. Just don't even go there and let him crap wherever he wants.

[Loud Whispers]

Basically talking to Trump is like trying to teach Harambe not to get shot, don't even go there

[smjjames]

http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/leaders/where-malcolm-turnbull-went-wrong-on-phone-with-donald-trump/news-story/edd290155a7b8ad948afa8ea1a4a7fb6

THE former head of the CIA says Malcolm Turnbull made a fatal error in his explosive phone conversation with Donald Trump.

Michael Morell, deputy director of the Central Intelligence Agency and acting director in 2011 and 2012-13, said the Prime Minister should not have tried to talk about the refugee arrangement with the US President.

The thorny subject of the “dumb deal” for America to take asylum-seekers from Manus and Nauru reportedly caused Mr Trump to become aggressive, hold the phone away from his ear and put an early end to the conversation.

Ah right ... so basically talking to Trump is like trying to teach a pet baboon to use a sit-on toilet. Just don't even go there and let him crap wherever he wants.

That's very much an opinion piece, but to be fair, that was while people were still figuring out how to handle diplomacy with him. Though PM Abe of Japan seemed to have figured it out pretty quick.

His first NATO summit (which he has said he'd commit to), or any summit where multiple leaders talk together, is likely to be FUN.

[Loud Whispers]

Just sayin, Theresa May figured it out first

[Reelya]

Rodney Dangerfield as President would make less faux pas.

[Max™]

Its so fucking juicy you dont even know, fam. ACA has to be done almost immediately because parts need to be done via reconciliation which is protected by the FY 2017 budget. If they pass FY 18 budget before they finish, the ACA loses all reconciliation protection. Tax reform hinges on FY 18 budget so they can't pass that until ACA is done.. ITS HILARIOUS

Seems like a reasonable description of things, does that check out for anyone else?

Parts of that are in various stories like this: http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/obamcare-conservatives-repeal-replace-234983

Those don't seem to cross into the tax/budget issues though.

[smjjames]

Its so fucking juicy you dont even know, fam. ACA has to be done almost immediately because parts need to be done via reconciliation which is protected by the FY 2017 budget. If they pass FY 18 budget before they finish, the ACA loses all reconciliation protection. Tax reform hinges on FY 18 budget so they can't pass that until ACA is done.. ITS HILARIOUS

Seems like a reasonable description of things, does that check out for anyone else?

Parts of that are in various stories like this: http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/obamcare-conservatives-repeal-replace-234983

Those don't seem to cross into the tax/budget issues though.

The insurance companies do have to submit their 2018 plans by April (or the end of April? Forget exactly), so, theres that.

Haven't heard anything about the repeal of ACA and the FY 2018 budget mutually conflicting like that though. The fact I mentioned above may have something to do with it.

Anyways, the Republicans have had six years to figure out how they want to replace it, but nope, they want to repeal and THEN think of a plan. And now that they're in a position where they have to decide on something, they seem to be starting to have some second thoughts about the whole thing.

[Reelya]

... Plus if you count the 8 Bush years as a time when the health-care reform issue was firmly in their court.

But there's also the fact that some "reforms" of this type aren't actually socialist/leftist solutions at all, they're often a bandaid measure designed to let the existing companies keep making a profit rather than have the whole thing collapse, thus ensuring a non-market solution becomes the only alternative.

e.g. Obamacare was Romneycare before that, and "welfare states" were in fact originally created by conservatives in order to fend off working class unrest. In both cases it was only later that liberals/leftists/unions started to support these things as a compromise measure instead of (1) universal healthcare or (2) actual worker ownership/control of industry.

[wierd]

There are any number of currently working systems elsewhere in the world that we could implement. Socialized healthcare is nothing new in Europe, for instance.

But NOOO.  We gotta stroke big pharma's cock, while giving up anal to the other special interests in the insurance industry.

[Reelya]

The one other alternative that is often brought up is Signapore's health system, but they cherry-pick the "market" mechanism in that without telling you that the government strictly regulates what is provided and the price.

Also, any time someone says you should imitate a single city state's structure, especially one that gets it's livelihood from trading with much larger neighbors, you should take that with a grain of salt for your gigantic nation. Sure, one Signapore and one Hongkong can thrive as financial / trading hubs, but if every single city tried that it's going to fail big time as a model of development. It's like saying everyone should go into the hotel and casino building business then we can all be rich like Donald Trump.

Having said that, go look at Signapore's health system, then look at what conservative pundits say about it, then double-check the details they're leaving out. Some of that might be more palatable politically for America.