Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Dunamisdeos]

The motive of his crimes was not "I belong to the republican party and therefore must commit these actions". You cannot seriously be implying this.

[Neonivek]

Are you actually saying that whether or not the left is properly treated over things like that bike lock are somehow on par with, and therefore have bearing on the things that Joe Arpaio did?

No, people just kept bringing that up about "Me". It has nothing to do with the topic, which frankly should have been what I said when it first started.

Being ok with pardoning Joe Arpaio is like being ok with pardoning Al Capone for tax evasion because hey, no one can prove he's a murderous crime lord.

Wasn't Al Capone charged with Tax Evasion because while they cannot definitively pin the crimes on him, they can at LEAST prove he didn't pay income tax on any of his dirty dealings.

While Joe Arpaio was charged with contempt of court which is... well... breaking court etiquette. He wasn't charged with contempt because nothing else would stick.

And no, this was more that I was saying that of all the controversial pardonings this one isn't really the most egregious... or all that egregious... or even if we accepted that he personally killed ALL those people, it wouldn't even be the biggest loss of life caused by someone who received a pardon.

Except we can absolutely prove that Joe Arpaio was a horrific tyrant who broke the law on the regular

Can we? Because this is a big deal.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

The motive of his crimes was not "I belong to the republican party and therefore must commit these actions". You cannot seriously be implying this.

Consider the perpetrator of a mass murder. Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Dylan Roof, Timothy McVeigh, any small or large will do.

Do you not see any problem with looking at the actions they committed and saying "what they believed didn't matter, only what they did"? Or in particular, coming in to a discussion and demanding we don't consider their beliefs but only their crimes in isolation? They acted because of what they believed in.

[Frumple]

Are people actually saying that whether or not the left is properly treated over things like that bike lock are somehow on par with, and therefore have bearing on the things that Joe Arpaio did?

Case in point, literally our fucking president. So yeah. Yeah, they're saying things like that. Not much here, thank the nonexistent gods, but yes, that's part of the national discourse right now.

[Trekkin]

Do you not see any problem with looking at the actions they committed and saying "what they believed didn't matter, only what they did"? Or in particular, coming in to a discussion and demanding we don't consider their beliefs but only their crimes in isolation? They acted because of what they believed in.

And, in the case of an elected official, they acted in ways designed to increase their odds of getting reelected. Arpaio was a racist tyrant, but he was specifically a Republican racist tyrant who made his inmates wear pink underwear and live in terrifying conditions partially because it polled well.

While Joe Arpaio was charged with contempt of court which is... well... breaking court etiquette. He wasn't charged with contempt because nothing else would stick.

That's only the most familiar form of contempt of court. It's actually for ignoring a court order, in this case a court order to stop throwing people into his torture tents on racist grounds.

[SalmonGod]

The real point is that it doesn't matter

It matters on many levels. 

Because it's relationship to organizations and ideological affiliations that provide people like Joe Arpaio the support they need to get away with shit, or get a presidential pardon when their shit finally catches up with them in some minor fashion.
And it's disparities in how blame and responsibility are assigned according to the prevailing attitudes and perspectives of our political culture that place far more burden on some organizations or ideological affiliations than others, draining one side of its ability to contest the other.

Somebody gets hit with a bike lock, and everyone remotely associated with the political concept of "the left" has to walk on eggshells for months to not be characterized as out of control violent with hunt mobs. 
Motherfucking Joe Arpaio gets a presidential pardon for some minor conviction after decades of internationally infamous levels of human rights violation and corruption, and people require overwhelming evidence to even permit outrage over it.

How can we fucking get anything done this way?

No, people just kept bringing that up about "Me".

And no, Neo.  It's not just you.  But I happened to be glancing in on the thread to see what the current topic was, and found your words far too easy to make an example of.

[Neonivek]

Do you not see any problem with looking at the actions they committed and saying "what they believed didn't matter, only what they did"? Or in particular, coming in to a discussion and demanding we don't consider their beliefs but only their crimes in isolation? They acted because of what they believed in.

And, in the case of an elected official, they acted in ways designed to increase their odds of getting reelected. Arpaio was a racist tyrant, but he was specifically a Republican racist tyrant who made his inmates wear pink underwear and live in terrifying conditions partially because it polled well.

What Judge allowed that prison to remain in place?

Somebody gets hit with a bike lock, and everyone remotely associated with the political concept of "the left" has to walk on eggshells for months to not be characterized as out of control violent with hunt mobs. 

No one on the left is walking on egg shells except to hide from the left. The only thing is happening is people are not taking the BS anymore. No one is buying that just because you cloak yourself in virtue that you are a good person as much and the hostility of the left is being flipped onto itself.

Both Bernie Sanders AND Hillary Clinton Sang the "Racism, Sexisms, Homophobia" song... The news sang that song non-stop for months. So this environment is COMPLETELY 100% created by the Left. They are now living in the world they created.

[SalmonGod]

Both Bernie Sanders AND Hillary Clinton Sang the "Racism, Sexisms, Homophobia" song... So this environment is COMPLETELY 100% created by the Left... They are now living in the world they created...

Wait, what?...

You will have to explain this much better, because I can only interpret this as a claim that the reason we have bigots marching on our streets now, openly and proudly proclaiming bigotry, is because the left is opposed to bigotry.

[Neonivek]

Both Bernie Sanders AND Hillary Clinton Sang the "Racism, Sexisms, Homophobia" song... So this environment is COMPLETELY 100% created by the Left... They are now living in the world they created...

Wait, what?...

You will have to explain this much better, because I can only interpret this as a claim that the reason we have bigots marching on our streets now, openly and proudly proclaiming bigotry, is because the left is opposed to bigotry.

They both played the "Ism" card.

Bernie by attacking "White people", Hillary mostly attacking Trump.

 

the left is opposed to bigotry

Sort of. They are also the loudest proponents FOR bigotry.

[SalmonGod]

Ok, and that conjured literal nazis up on the streets of Charlottesville?

[Neonivek]

Ok, and that conjured literal nazis up on the streets of Charlottesville?

Those Nazis are what created the "walk on eggshells because one person on the left hit someone with a padlock"?

[Dunamisdeos]

Neo, he was found guilty of everything from racial profiling to the deaths of inmates resulting from his prison conditions. In court. He proudly takes responsibility for these things, he just doesn't accept that he did anything wrong. These things are publicly documented, go look them up. Everyone here already has.

Metal you haven't talked one bit about what he "believed" in, just that he belonged to the Republican Party. So again, are you actually implying that he took these actions because he was a Republican?

The Republican half of the senate didn't vote to pardon him. Trump did it because he's cut from the same cloth. How can you think it's more important to pin this on your political rivals than on the man who took these actions? He didn't need Republican support to get away with anything. He was in office for THE ENTIRE OBAMA PRESIDENCY.

[Neonivek]

Neo, he was found guilty of everything from racial profiling to the deaths of inmates resulting from his prison conditions. In court. He proudly takes responsibility for these things, he just doesn't accept that he did anything wrong. These things are publicly documented, go look them up. Everyone here already has.

Then why isn't he convicted? All of these are indictable offenses... many of which would get him a life sentence.

[Dunamisdeos]

Neo, he was found guilty of everything from racial profiling to the deaths of inmates resulting from his prison conditions. In court. He proudly takes responsibility for these things, he just doesn't accept that he did anything wrong. These things are publicly documented, go look them up. Everyone here already has.

Then why isn't he convicted? All of these are indictable offenses.

What part about looking it up yourself do you have a problem with? I seriously want to know why you insist on making arguments that you openly have not looked into in any way.

[Starver]

They both played the "Ism" card.

Bernie by attacking "White people", Hillary mostly attacking Trump.

And Trump attacked Hillary. Oh boy did he attack Hillary.

(And if you want an -ism that was involved, try Elitism for starters. But first tell me where Bernie/Hillary attacked anything that it wasn't right to attack... At least as much as the nebulous "trust me, not the people who tell you that I'm lying" attacks from Donald.)