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[MetalSlimeHunt]

That one is specifically memorizing the women that took part in the Vietnam war. I don't see anything religious about it, seems more 'Florence Nightingale' than religious.

I don't even understand why a religious memorial for the dead would make anyone so salty, it surely needs no explanation?

It's because it inherently implies God's blessing of your war. Even if you can interpret it otherwise, that interpretation exists.

[WealthyRadish]

I can understand that particular confederate memorial being pulled down and not being treated with historical value, considering it had been erected during the 1920s (the height of the KKK's renewed popularity) almost certainly with the intent of romanticizing the confederacy. There are many early 20th century "monuments" like that in the south that really shouldn't be given public prominence, only giving space to modern confederate apologists and worse, entangling the local and state government in protecting the monuments. Defending that statue in particular as merely being wholesome veteran worship ignores the obvious lack of political neutrality a tasteful war memorial requires, as Tawa said.

[smjjames]

Speaking of the statues, I wonder what Congress will do with the confederate statues that they have. The obvious answer is probably nothing until those states replace them with something.

Removing those would make a pretty strong statement for sure.

[Frumple]

Oh also, Hennepin County Minnesota.

Protesters in solidarity with Charlottesville apparently brought down the County flag, replacing it with an antifa flag, and burned it.

I think these guys might burn all of their newly gained public sympathy in one night.

Weird it seems to have happened after the protest dispersed, and with what seems to be no official comment, including from the cops that had eyes on from start to finish. Only news source that's put up anything the right time frame doesn't have pictures of it, even though they do have the effigy on fire -- hell, poking around, since I checked that at least one new report even has pics of the thing on fire with what twitter seemed to identify as the flag beside it, without mention.

Would think something like that would have stopped being quiet by now, but the only thing that seems to be pushing it is twitter and pol. Be interesting to find out what's going on, I guess.

[smjjames]

Oh also, Hennepin County Minnesota.

Protesters in solidarity with Charlottesville apparently brought down the County flag, replacing it with an antifa flag, and burned it.

I think these guys might burn all of their newly gained public sympathy in one night.

Weird it seems to have happened after the protest dispersed, and with what seems to be no official comment, including from the cops that had eyes on from start to finish. Only news source that's put up anything the right time frame doesn't have pictures of it, even though they do have the effigy on fire -- hell, poking around, since I checked that at least one new report even has pics of the thing on fire with what twitter seemed to identify as the flag beside it, without mention.

Would think something like that would have stopped being quiet by now, but the only thing that seems to be pushing it is twitter and pol. Be interesting to find out what's going on, I guess.

I clicked the link to look back at the image and... it no longer exists. I suppose it could have been 4chan nonsense.

[Frumple]

Hell, if you want to see what's being claimed as one, there seems to be one on the minneapolis PD's twitter, at the moment. One of the replies to the protesters dispersed one.

Sometimes things are slow, so it's possible it just hasn't hit yet, but the timing's odd for it to not be showing up somewhere local already. If it is, I can't seem to find it. Even the local news twitters seem mum on that particular subject, when they're getting other stuff out just fine.

[smjjames]

Hell, if you want to see what's being claimed as one, there seems to be one on the minneapolis PD's twitter, at the moment. One of the replies to the protesters dispersed one.

If they actually did that, I'm surprised the police even let them, and considering it was in front of a government building.

They're definetly burning any public goodwill by doing that if they actually did so, and claiming it certainly doesn't help matters.

[Trekkin]

Sometimes things are slow, so it's possible it just hasn't hit yet, but the timing's odd for it to not be showing up somewhere local already. If it is, I can't seem to find it. Even the local news twitters seem mum on that particular subject, when they're getting other stuff out just fine.

I can't find anyone officially saying they did either. That the official PD twitter confirms no arrests were made would seem to confirm that nothing illegal happened, under which umbrella the burning of state property would certainly seem to fall.

This has all the hallmarks of a rumor gone nuts, really; it's provocative in a simple, perfectly exploitable way. Behold, the fascists cry, Antifa has taken over local government and our bluepill beta (etc. etc.) cops do nothing. Thus is more violence justified, at least to the violent.

[Frumple]

I'm currently just trying to wrap my head around the concept of a member of the fourth estate that wouldn't be throwing themselves at a story like that like a shark pit at a twenty pound pile of chum. At least three, four different local sources have reported on the protest walkabout, and not a one have mentioned anything involving the flag, and, like. The setup for this would require them to not be doing something that would gain significant brownie points with their local consumers, rile up all sorts of the shit the media loves 'cause it makes them money, and for... what, exactly?

Somehow the media decided to about face and clam up in complete defiance of literally everything they've done over the last, like, 50 years. Some of those local sources were spreading the bloody nazi shits' response to what kicked this all off, but not mentioning their own area's flag being burnt in front of city hall? What the blazes am I supposed to be seeing, here?

Add on that apparently an anti-fascist bunch had the balls to replace and burn the county flag in the middle of the day, right outside the minneapolis city hall, in front of cops and firefighters (who put out the effigy that the flag was claimed to be burned with, for bonus points!), and seem to have not both recorded that and immediately posted on the internet, and you got something that, if nothing else, makes you wonder what the hell is supposed to be going on, here.

'Cause the local ground game being this quiet, for this long after the proposed fact, in relation to the event being claimed, is what can accurately called hypnotoad kegger shit.

Just... shit. It's 20 goddamn 17. Anything's possible. But this is doing its damnedest to twist my suspension of disbelief in knots and set it on fire.

E: And in the latest update of 2017's possible events, in this corner we have the POTUS, after a barrage of accusations of entanglements with white supremacists, publicly announcing he's seriously considering pardoning joe arpaio. Known best for his history of farcical caricatures of racism and police malevolence, all made worse by none of it being intended to be a caricature.

[RedKing]

Considering that the 'OP' tweet has since been deleted, and the lack of corroborating evidence, I think this can safely be chalked up to more right-wing nonsense.

Oh, and Playergamer? Drop the fucking faux tears for the poor, neglected Confederate dead. I don't know which part of the country you hail from, but I'm a Southerner descended of a Confederate POW who died in a Union prison camp outside of Philadelphia. I probably lost more Confederate relatives in the war than you can even name.
And yet, you don't see me throwing a fuss.

This statue was right down the road from me, figuratively speaking. It very well could be considered as memorializing my specific ancestors, as NC Confederate dead.
And yet, you don't see me shedding a tear at it being brought down.

When I was younger, I used to try and make the arguments that the Confederacy wasn't all bad, that my ancestors weren't bad (after all, they didn't own slaves). And I still think they weren't all bad. But the symbols, the images, the very concept of the Confederacy has been irreparably fouled by the racist, ignorant fucks that wrap themselves in it.

You want to do something to memorialize Confederate dead? Beat the living fuck out of the next guy you see screaming about n----rs and s--cs and k--es while sporting a Confederate flag. Because those are the people that are putting the legacy of those soldiers in the mud, not the people bringing down statues.

[Neonivek]

http://theconversation.com/erasing-history-why-islamic-state-is-blowing-up-ancient-artefacts-78667

Incase your wondering why I have an issue with a rampant unruly mob of moralistic ideological rioters tearing down historical artifacts and memorials.

Well that and... I dislike how winners tend to trample on the losers. There really SHOULD be Confederate memorials. Sure there are no German Nazi Memorials, but they have WW2 memorials (and not just Holocaust, victim ones) and Germany has often been accused of trying to forget WW2 even happened.

===

Personally I don't even think the hatred towards the statues has anything to do with how the symbolism is being misappropriated or even about the war itself. I think it has to do with how it is symbolic of everything this group hates (Which should ALWAYS be a warning sign!).

[Frumple]

... there are. Also museums and crap! Confed history isn't really much more under attack than christianity is,* and most folks wouldn't really have trouble with it if it was just memorializing. Lotta' the stuff floating around ain't just that, though, and celebrating that shit is somethin' a wee titch different.

* Which is to say a lot of opposition mostly just consists of people really rather preferring it stop shoving its wang into everyone's face.

[Neonivek]

... there are. Also museums and crap! Confed history isn't really much more under attack than christianity is, and most folks wouldn't really have trouble with it if it was just memorializing. Lotta' the stuff floating around ain't just that, though, and celebrating that shit is somethin' a wee titch different.

We have historical records that these ancient artefacts exist too. So no history is being "Erased".

 

Confed history isn't really much more under attack than christianity is

Yeah because no one lets Antifa walk around tearing down memorials, that would be stupid. Yet that is what is being argued here. That you know, maybe angry mobs should decide this.

I am not against removing statues, especially ones that would advocate hatred. I am against double standards and the mental loops that justify this double standard.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Motive matters. ISIS blows up statues because they're genocidal iconoclasts, but that doesn't mean statue destruction is universally bad. If, say, the Nazis had conquered the world, would you object to resistance fighters attacking statues of Hitler?

I'd rather see the "Confederate memorials" (circa 1920) put in museums too, but if conservative state governments are committed to keeping them up, I'm not going to be that upset by people tearing them down.

[Frumple]

Oh no, no, angry mobs shouldn't decide things, no. I'm sure there's some other way to pursue the removal of a monument to bigotry, treason, and the oppression, slavery, rape, and murder of great swaths of the population's ancestors -- including a lot of us white southerners, 'cause it ain't like however many greats grandpappy kept his hands off the "help" too well -- that was on the table.

Not like the NC legislature would have passed laws that made it illegal for the local officials to choose to do something else.