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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 4428955 times)

smjjames

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Re: AmeriPol thread: D. C. on summer break
« Reply #10650 on: August 14, 2017, 08:12:55 pm »

Protesters in Durham NC just pulled down a statue of a confederate soldier, dedicated to "The Boys Who Wore The Gray."

They've got a point. We shouldn't build monuments to men who died fighting for lost causes they didn't understand.

Spoiler: Right? (click to show/hide)

While I get your point, the context does matter.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: AmeriPol thread: D. C. on summer break
« Reply #10651 on: August 14, 2017, 08:13:56 pm »

While I get your point, the context does matter.
Whether Ukraine, Egypt or USA, it hurts to see war graves and memorials desecrated

Neonivek

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Re: AmeriPol thread: D. C. on summer break
« Reply #10652 on: August 14, 2017, 08:15:32 pm »

Can't say I think that's a good thing. Holding people accountable for their public behavior and espoused beliefs is good. Witch hunts are not. And I can't imagine the kind of bitterness and anger people losing their jobs over this will generate. Seems like the kind of thing that would push angry, possibly unstable people to do something rash and stupid and terrible.

Yeah it is almost like an angry mob of a moralizing ideology that hunts people down for dissent or differences might backfire. If ONLY someone could have predicted this result. :P
« Last Edit: August 14, 2017, 08:20:28 pm by Neonivek »
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smjjames

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Re: AmeriPol thread: D. C. on summer break
« Reply #10653 on: August 14, 2017, 08:20:26 pm »

While I get your point, the context does matter.
Whether Ukraine, Egypt or USA, it hurts to see war graves and memorials desecrated

True... I suppose the ones to specific Confederate figures are the bigger flashpoints than the others that would be more general or don't identify specific names.
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Starver

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Re: AmeriPol thread: D. C. on summer break
« Reply #10654 on: August 14, 2017, 08:23:35 pm »

(What on Planet Internet is that? (From six posts ago, now))

I've discovered, by lurking, that a lot of people are upset that the use of the #sayhername hashtag for Heather Heyer is upsetting quite a lot of people who think #sayhername is exclusively for use in identifying black victims of domestic violence.

And, worthy as I consider that latter highlighting to be, I only discovered that by misclicking. I'm really not sure that I would ever have known about the prior link, and I'm not familiar enough with logged-in Twitter to work out if a regular poster would have ever known anything about it, even after using it themselves (in good faith) for Heather's sake.  Still, there's a lot of talk about "white appropriation", which I sympathise with but can't really see as something worth fighting over.  The whole #randomwords nature of hashtags surely does not lend itself to "possessiveness". Much aside from the problems inherent in differentiating homonymic tags (to steal and repurpose a pre-Twitter example, can we differentiate between #PowergenItalia and #PowerGenitalia?), transiently at least the unintended 'appropriation' serves a greater good than exhaustively ensuring no possible historic use is being trod on the toes of, and could surely then be managed properly to highlight the original purpose as the current furor decays or transmutes into a new meme, to the benefit of the original campaign.

Or do I need to make sure, in my future fall into the black hole that ia Twitter, that (say) #GNUTerryPratchett does not accidentally interfere with the Ground Nut Error thing that Young People are making in discussing how Ratchet the Transformer feeds, or something, when I use it annually upon the "#GloriousTwentyFifth". Another troublesome tag, possibly.

« Last Edit: August 14, 2017, 08:28:17 pm by Starver »
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Frumple

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Re: AmeriPol thread: D. C. on summer break
« Reply #10655 on: August 14, 2017, 08:24:27 pm »

While I get your point, the context does matter.
Y'know, it kinda' does give a thought. Instead of tearing down those statues, they should build another memorial, right besides them, with the names of as many slaves as they can find that died in the states those soldiers were fighting for. Any non-military american citizens folks can dig up that died during the conflict can go there, too.

It'd give a good bit of context to the things, alright.
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Tawa

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Re: AmeriPol thread: D. C. on summer break
« Reply #10656 on: August 14, 2017, 08:25:22 pm »

We shouldn't forget the Confederates, but we shouldn't glorify them, either. The people who died in Vietnam weren't fighting to establish a country with institutionalized slavery.

The Vietnam War memorial is classy because it's a neutral depiction. It encourages us to remember the soldiers who died in vain on the other side of an ocean without necessarily implying the cause they fought for was just or unjust--it's just about remembering the fallen. A statue, particularly one engraved with "The Confederate States of America", has a certain implied reverence for the cause the soldiers were fighting for.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: AmeriPol thread: D. C. on summer break
« Reply #10657 on: August 14, 2017, 08:26:45 pm »

True... I suppose the ones to specific Confederate figures are the bigger flashpoints than the others that would be more general or don't identify specific names.
I think it was in the now banned ukraine threads where someone joked it would be cool for once for angry mobs to safely relocate statues of things they don't like into museums instead of just smashing them. AGGRESSIVE CURATION
Also helps ensure you don't accidentally permanently cultural revolution yourself into death. Can't unsmash your civilization

Neonivek

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Re: AmeriPol thread: D. C. on summer break
« Reply #10658 on: August 14, 2017, 08:29:29 pm »

You are right Tawa there is absolutely no glorification or obfuscation with the Vietnam memorial

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Ohhhh... I mean just because these soldiers are being treated as religious figures... doesn't mean they are condoning the war... They are just saying that our side was the right side.
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redwallzyl

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Re: AmeriPol thread: D. C. on summer break
« Reply #10659 on: August 14, 2017, 08:31:57 pm »

True... I suppose the ones to specific Confederate figures are the bigger flashpoints than the others that would be more general or don't identify specific names.
I think it was in the now banned ukraine threads where someone joked it would be cool for once for angry mobs to safely relocate statues of things they don't like into museums instead of just smashing them. AGGRESSIVE CURATION
Also helps ensure you don't accidentally permanently cultural revolution yourself into death. Can't unsmash your civilization
Statues are smashing magnates. their just following thousands of years of tradition.
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smjjames

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Re: AmeriPol thread: D. C. on summer break
« Reply #10660 on: August 14, 2017, 08:33:09 pm »

You are right Tawa there is absolutely no glorification or obfuscation with the Vietnam memorial

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Ohhhh... I mean just because these soldiers are being treated as religious figures... doesn't mean they are condoning the war...

That one is specifically memorizing the women that took part in the Vietnam war. I don't see anything religious about it, seems more 'Florence Nightingale' than religious.
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Neonivek

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Re: AmeriPol thread: D. C. on summer break
« Reply #10661 on: August 14, 2017, 08:36:50 pm »

Because it is using religious iconography... the dead soldier there is Jesus.

It is kind of an Homage of "The Lamentation"

So that woman there would be... Mother Mary
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Playergamer

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Re: AmeriPol thread: D. C. on summer break
« Reply #10662 on: August 14, 2017, 08:37:34 pm »

Oh also, Hennepin County Minnesota.

Protesters in solidarity with Charlottesville apparently brought down the County flag, replacing it with an antifa flag, and burned it.

I think these guys might burn all of their newly gained public sympathy in one night.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: AmeriPol thread: D. C. on summer break
« Reply #10663 on: August 14, 2017, 08:38:30 pm »

That one is specifically memorizing the women that took part in the Vietnam war. I don't see anything religious about it, seems more 'Florence Nightingale' than religious.
I don't even understand why a religious memorial for the dead would make anyone so salty, it surely needs no explanation?

Statues are smashing magnates. their just following thousands of years of tradition.
God damn vandals go bak 2 germania

smjjames

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Re: AmeriPol thread: D. C. on summer break
« Reply #10664 on: August 14, 2017, 08:38:40 pm »

Because it is using religious iconography... the dead soldier there is Jesus.

It is kind of an Homage of "The Lamentation"

So that woman there would be... Mother Mary

Artistic license?

@LW: I wasn't the one being salty about it. Though yeah, I do wonder what neonivek finds objectionable about it.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2017, 08:40:43 pm by smjjames »
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