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[Leafsnail]

No. There are a lot of problems with your position here, to the degree where I'd say you're completely refusing to think at all and are just dead set on lynching me in spite of the evidence that you should not.

You ARE scum. This significantly reduces a lot of issues with everything I have to think about. This is why it is easy. You seem to treat everyone as scum except Tiruin and DA.

I am not. Even if you feel completely sure, you should realize that you have been wrong in the past in spite of being sure - it is not 100%, even if you feel like it is.

I believe that Tiruin, Persus and Hector are town for the record, not DA. I don't really understand your objection to being suspicious of people - I do not know who the mafia is, and I would like to account for possibilities where people are mafia. Particularly when completely unconfirmed people are posting plans that start with an extremely bad lynch and end with them alive and in a position to win if they have a particular role. When I had enough time to make a proper post I also posted analysis with a specific plan that would lead to a safe town win.

It seems like you just can't forgive me for not seeing doll as town when you do. You're thinking "it would make sense for you to do this as scum", which is part of a thought process, but you're not considering whether it would also make sense for me to do the same thing as town.

But, more importantly, you have no role, so you're basically useless in plans anyhow. Unless you do have a role, in which case you're scum. It is significantly easier for you to be anything. So you should die first.

It is wrong to say that I am "basically useless" because I have no role. I still have a vote, which means that keeping town-me alive reduces the chance that scum can gain a majority. Sheer numbers and flexibility are important to breaking a setup open, and we shouldn't throw that away by making a stupid lynch today.

My guess is you're probably an Advanced Dopp, which is why the power level is like this. It makes plenty of sense (Essentially Kook Townie fakeclaim easy), but it doesn't really matter.

This is just a random guess you're throwing out with no reasoning. There's no reason to suspect that I'm an Advanced Dopp in particular, or that an Advanced Dopp would be drawn to a kook claim (so they can be inspected and outed by a Telepath?). I'd also note that the lower chance to lynch a dopp under doll's plan compared to mine (see scenarios a, b and c above) would make us weaker to an Advanced Dopp, since the best way to defend against it would be to kill a dopp today.

But if we lynch you, then it STILL tests DA. If you are a Double Mind Shield, then I don't care much. And we can get more results, just like you oh so wished for.

It doesn't test DA - me flipping town says nothing about DA's alignment. Me flipping dopp would out him as a dopp, although again in that case lynching him then killing me if he's a dopp is just as good a plan. Although I guess he might be able to get more survive results, who I guess you will also lynch for no good reason.

[webadict]

K, Leaf, you're not seeing this at all. Let me explain simply.

You ARE scum. This significantly reduces a lot of issues with everything I have to think about. This is why it is easy. You seem to treat everyone as scum except Tiruin and DA.

But, more importantly, you have no role, so you're basically useless in plans anyhow. Unless you do have a role, in which case you're scum. It is significantly easier for you to be anything. So you should die first.

My guess is you're probably an Advanced Dopp, which is why the power level is like this. It makes plenty of sense (Essentially Kook Townie fakeclaim easy), but it doesn't really matter.

But if we lynch you, then it STILL tests DA. If you are a Double Mind Shield, then I don't care much. And we can get more results, just like you oh so wished for.

If you weren't so horribly suspicious, I wouldn't mind lynching DA. But you are, so feel free to die.

Does that make sense to you, Leaf?

[webadict]

Yo, wtf guys, anyone want to make sure we actually do things today?

Thanks for not participating. Thanks for the useless extension. Thanks for wasting all of our times.

But sure, let's continue to pretend you're doing something.

Except Leaf, who is actually trying to win because he's scum.

[Leafsnail]

doll's plan depends on people doing particular things tonight. At the very least he and you should want to confirm people are doing those things.

[Persus13]

I know what I'm doing, and it seems like discussion has stagnated into two camps. I must say Leafsnail and hector have some good points, but its a bit too late in leafsnail's case.

[Leafsnail]

What do you mean?

[Leafsnail]

If you can see this is a bad lynch you don't have to make it.

[Persus13]

You should have pointed out that your lynch doesn't necessarily confirm DA sooner instead of wasting your time with a doll lynch. Much of your time was wasted trying to convince webadict, when banging your head against a brick wall would have been more useful. You need three votes to not get lynched and that's growing ever more increasingly unlikely.

If you can see this is a bad lynch you don't have to make it.

I'm not voting for you. Your lynch isn't the worst, its just seems a bit arbitrary on webadict and doll's part.

[Tiruin]

PFP (Lolnetwhyyy): after reading quite a bit (...everything sans my early morning memory), I'm inclined to trust Leafsnail, Vote Deus Asmoth, trust webadict, and note the conflict of people's perspectives onto how people treat each other based on their own perspectives, over a broader spectrum of targeting (which both considered, are effective in their own way). All of this paragraph is however based on attitude and comparative analysis, which can be pretty faulty :O
Especially given that I had no strong feelings one way or another, although 'strong feelings' don't translate into 'strong scum feelings' but more 'strong skeptical feelings' of scum behavior.

If webadict is scum, his words have a subtle degree of honesty to them--alongside that one snippet of acting towards his intent [War Vet]. If Leafsnail is scum, considering his efforts--I have added a busy tag due to his work and such, and the note of his motivation and this is what influences my read on his behavior moreso, even if there may be some strangeness in recent date.

hector13 [Observe. Guard]
Persus13 [Survive//Heroic Guard]
doll [Observe. Guard]
webadict [War Vet]
Leafsnail {Kooky Town [heh, cookie]}
4maskwolf [War Vet]


TheBiggerFish [War Vet]
TheDarkStar {ALIENS[/HistoryChannel] :O // Agent Operative}
Tiruin [Inv. Scientist // Tracking Devices]
Deus Asmoth [Telepath]

PFP

PPEx2 O_o

You should have pointed out that your lynch doesn't necessarily confirm DA sooner instead of wasting your time with a doll lynch. Much of your time was wasted trying to convince webadict, when banging your head against a brick wall would have been more useful. You need three votes to not get lynched and that's growing ever more increasingly unlikely.

He did that, like, a day or so ago--it was quite obvious however given the time of consideration. (Obvious is not meant to demean anyone--but obvious as in 'the correlation can be presumed' when looking back). DA can even be a dopp while scapegoat'ing on Leafy. I would however tend to note appropriate trust-mentions going around as it seems like the dopps seem to be on a tight string at the start of D3 thanks to information disassociation/closure back then, and may have chosen to be straightforward or at least pick claims that are pretty difficult to misinterpret. Playing safe, maybe.

Also Hector unvoted so it's 3/4 from DA to LS.

[Mephansteras]

The Whiteboard
4maskwolf: Persus13
Deus Asmoth: Leafsnail, TheDarkStar, Tiruin
hector13: Deus Asmoth
Leafsnail: 4maskwolf, doll, TheBiggerFish, webadict


Day ends ~5pm Pacific Today. There are no more extensions available for this day.

[webadict]

Sure, why not? Let's lynch DA.

At least we're making a decision. A dumb one, but at least there's actually people doing stuff. But you'll need more people than that to do it.

Jesus.

And don't say you trust me. You can't trust me and Leaf. It's impossible. He's scum.

[Tiruin]

I could be voting Leafsnail but actually giving leeway to catch any last minute votes.

That could be possible too (while I'm sincerely sympathizing with being busy by work and mistakes due to this busy).

Maybe you need some...tea, webadict?

[webadict]

I could be voting Leafsnail but actually giving leeway to catch any last minute votes.

That could be possible too (while I'm sincerely sympathizing with being busy by work and mistakes due to this busy).

Maybe you need some...tea, webadict?

I am also watching, so I guess some tea is appreciated.

[webadict]

I could be voting Leafsnail but actually giving leeway to catch any last minute votes.

That could be possible too (while I'm sincerely sympathizing with being busy by work and mistakes due to this busy).

Maybe you need some...tea, webadict?

I am also watching, so I guess some tea is appreciated.

But, we've got like 2 hours left, so, you know.

[Leafsnail]

I'd like you to actually do some serious re-evaluation after my flip, webadict (and anyone else blindly following doll). Don't just go "oh that was 100% his fault" like you did after the day one mislynch. Think about how bad of an idea it was to lynch me from an objective mechanical perspective, and think about how hard doll pushed it in spite of that. Maybe also resolve not to lynch people based on stupid policy reasons like "they advocated a lynch on someone who I trust absolutely for no reason".

Also I'd like to remind the dopps about the fairly strong possibility that TDS (or doll) are a Hivemind. If you want to win you should take a shot at one of them because, if they are a hivemind, it would bring down their followers and lead to a fairly even game between town and scum. I'm saying this to you because doing that would be mutually beneficial for both humans and doppelgangers compared to just letting a Hivemind win.

I think a Hivemind is likely because 3 scum in a 14 player game is a fairly small amount, and most of the other scum would have already shown up already. Also there being 5 scum players out of 10 (3 Hivemind, 2 dopps) would explain the general lack of activity and critical thought in the thread today.

You should have pointed out that your lynch doesn't necessarily confirm DA sooner instead of wasting your time with a doll lynch. Much of your time was wasted trying to convince webadict, when banging your head against a brick wall would have been more useful. You need three votes to not get lynched and that's growing ever more increasingly unlikely.

webadict was the only person who seemed to be reading about or engaging with the thread. I can't really convince other people if they're just not paying attention. Heck, not a single person in the thread has seriously engaged the plan I posted earlier. doll and webadict consciously ignored it, everyone else just hasn't commented on it at all. It fucking sucks, to be honest - why should I put any effort into this game if no-one else is going to care at all?

I think this attitude is dumb - even though it's a bad idea, you want to see me lynched just because I advocated a lynch you didn't like earlier (and this is what you're doing, if you're refusing to vote against this lynch)? I didn't have the time to make a full-on analysis post until I did.