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Author Topic: Paranormal 25 - Game over! Town victory!  (Read 81128 times)

webadict

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Re: Paranormal 25 - Day 3 brings no sign of Spring
« Reply #465 on: February 19, 2017, 04:29:28 pm »

Let's not forget two observant guards who can very easily give bad information because if they protect anyone targeting a PWV they tell the person the PWV tried to kill them.
Even better, they protect a PWV and then tell the PWV that they were killed... by the PWV.
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4maskwolf

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Re: Paranormal 25 - Day 3 brings no sign of Spring
« Reply #466 on: February 19, 2017, 04:37:45 pm »

Let's not forget two observant guards who can very easily give bad information because if they protect anyone targeting a PWV they tell the person the PWV tried to kill them.
Even better, they protect a PWV and then tell the PWV that they were killed... by the PWV.
I'm not sure that's how it works, but assuming that all claims are accurate this is an incredibly trolly setup.

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webadict

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Re: Paranormal 25 - Day 3 brings no sign of Spring
« Reply #467 on: February 19, 2017, 05:06:23 pm »

Let's not forget two observant guards who can very easily give bad information because if they protect anyone targeting a PWV they tell the person the PWV tried to kill them.
Even better, they protect a PWV and then tell the PWV that they were killed... by the PWV.
I'm not sure that's how it works, but assuming that all claims are accurate this is an incredibly trolly setup.

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It should be.
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TheBiggerFish

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Re: Paranormal 25 - Day 3 brings no sign of Spring
« Reply #468 on: February 19, 2017, 05:28:32 pm »

...
@4mask:Even all the contradictory ones from doll?
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4maskwolf

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Re: Paranormal 25 - Day 3 brings no sign of Spring
« Reply #469 on: February 19, 2017, 05:31:37 pm »

...
@4mask:Even all the contradictory ones from doll?
Without any context for this question I'm going to assume you're asking me about my roleclaim list.  I ignored contradictory, or multiple roleclaims (like doll's shenanigans early game and a bait roleclaim by webadict that doll defeated the purpose of), and since doll has stuck with the guard roleclaim since they claimed D2 I went with that one as doll's claimed roll.

webadict

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Re: Paranormal 25 - Day 3 brings no sign of Spring
« Reply #470 on: February 19, 2017, 07:06:05 pm »

Also, since I've now roleclaimed, I am going alert Tonight.

It's only fair.
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Leafsnail

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Re: Paranormal 25 - Day 3 brings no sign of Spring
« Reply #471 on: February 19, 2017, 08:08:59 pm »

Action trumps Role, for the most part. For example, a Dopp who Investigates someone will show a 'Find' result, but a Dopp who does no action will always show Kill instead of Survive.
Meph: If a human player with a role associated with a "find", "kill" or "protect" result chooses not to action will they give off a "survive" result?
... I'm also a War Vet.

Except I haven't been on alert any Nights... Because, you know, I'd kill like half the Town.
Why did you claim this now? Same question for 4maskwolf.

I believe TBF's PWV claim due to how he behaved on day 2, and the fact that he had his guns on means there'd be some risk in falseclaiming it. I don't think it's likely that both of these convenient, unverifiable kill goals are real.
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Leafsnail

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Re: Paranormal 25 - Day 3 brings no sign of Spring
« Reply #472 on: February 19, 2017, 08:31:39 pm »

Actually I don't see why you wouldn't turn your guns on at least for night two. You were already in contact with everyone you thought was town anyway.
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4maskwolf

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Re: Paranormal 25 - Day 3 brings no sign of Spring
« Reply #473 on: February 19, 2017, 09:19:10 pm »

Action trumps Role, for the most part. For example, a Dopp who Investigates someone will show a 'Find' result, but a Dopp who does no action will always show Kill instead of Survive.
Meph: If a human player with a role associated with a "find", "kill" or "protect" result chooses not to action will they give off a "survive" result?
... I'm also a War Vet.

Except I haven't been on alert any Nights... Because, you know, I'd kill like half the Town.
Why did you claim this now? Same question for 4maskwolf.

I believe TBF's PWV claim due to how he behaved on day 2, and the fact that he had his guns on means there'd be some risk in falseclaiming it. I don't think it's likely that both of these convenient, unverifiable kill goals are real.
I already said I was on alert every night, I said it when I claimed it.  As for why I claimed it?  I was getting a sense of the role's relative weakness in the current setup and honestly I'd like to see a fullclaim from everyone.  We have two guards in the game, any really important roles can be protected and there are three roles here that don't need protecting.  The majority of players have already claimed and most of those who haven't are the main scum suspects.

4maskwolf

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Re: Paranormal 25 - Day 3 brings no sign of Spring
« Reply #474 on: February 19, 2017, 09:22:47 pm »

Also, Leafsnail, if you want to say that my roleclaim is fake you'll have to have a convincing reason why I softclaimed it night two and went out of my way to ask a guard not to target me with their protection.

doll: Is War Veteran the role webadict claimed to you early D1?

Leafsnail

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Re: Paranormal 25 - Day 3 brings no sign of Spring
« Reply #475 on: February 19, 2017, 09:42:07 pm »

Yours is more convincing then. I'd be interested to hear from Tiruin whether webadict claimed to her at any point before.

Looking forward to doll reaching around for an excuse to lynch me in spite of the non-doppelganger inspection result incidentally.
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Persus13

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Re: Paranormal 25 - Day 3 brings no sign of Spring
« Reply #476 on: February 19, 2017, 10:28:20 pm »

Its worth pointing out that War Vets can be dopps.

Has everyone claimed at this point besides me and Leafsnail?

Mephansteras: what actions can cause someone to return a 'survive' result? Can these actions override the 'kill' result that comes from being a doppelganger?

From the OP I can't see any.
Townie
Enchanter
Survivor
Scientist/Alien with a Double Mind Shield
I'll repeat myself. I'm none of those roles. Also as Meph said, Actions trump Roles.

Meph: The OP says Telepath's detect the goals based on the actions taken that night and their role. what happens when the two goals are not the same?

Action trumps Role, for the most part. For example, a Dopp who Investigates someone will show a 'Find' result, but a Dopp who does no action will always show Kill instead of Survive.

Persus13
So you're a cutting edge scientist?
PM your tech to Tiruin, myself, webadict, and hector13.
If you're not a cutting edge scientist then you have to claim right now because your options for a non-mind-shielded, non-survivor role are shrinking by the minutes.
Leafsnail has conveniently outed himself as the survivor, so you're approaching town as it stands.
I'm not a cutting edge scientist. Like I said before, the action I took N1 must have given the survive result, not my role.
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webadict

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Re: Paranormal 25 - Day 3 brings no sign of Spring
« Reply #477 on: February 19, 2017, 10:50:16 pm »

Action trumps Role, for the most part. For example, a Dopp who Investigates someone will show a 'Find' result, but a Dopp who does no action will always show Kill instead of Survive.
Meph: If a human player with a role associated with a "find", "kill" or "protect" result chooses not to action will they give off a "survive" result?
... I'm also a War Vet.

Except I haven't been on alert any Nights... Because, you know, I'd kill like half the Town.
Why did you claim this now? Same question for 4maskwolf.

I believe TBF's PWV claim due to how he behaved on day 2, and the fact that he had his guns on means there'd be some risk in falseclaiming it. I don't think it's likely that both of these convenient, unverifiable kill goals are real.
Why not? It's actually a decent idea, because then I no longer have to keep my guns off. This allows me to kill a Dopp if they attack. I don't see any reason NOT to. There's like... zero risk to doing so, especially since it's not like there's any left. It felt like I'd be leaving the Town without a source of information if I didn't.

Yours is more convincing then. I'd be interested to hear from Tiruin whether webadict claimed to her at any point before.

Looking forward to doll reaching around for an excuse to lynch me in spite of the non-doppelganger inspection result incidentally.
Nope.  Never needed to. I was a glorified Townie for the first two Days. doll can verify that I claimed War Vet to him the very first Day. I ALSO claimed that I was not going to go on alert.

There are legitimate reasons to lynch you. You do realize this, no? I mean, pretending that there isn't doesn't make it true.

Why are you so hellbent on doll's lynch? That's the question that is flipped on you. You're the one saying he's making up reasons, but... You're ALSO making up reasons. There has been a grand total of ZERO helpful things out of your mouth this whole Day. I want you to think this one through, from a Town perspective. I don't expect you to trust anyone. But I do expect you to assume that there are actually Town members among this group that are saying things because they believe this will be the best course of action.

I'm gonna be honest: You would make a really good lynch. Especially since the only thing you've done Today (rather unsuccessfully) is try to make everyone suspicious of everyone else.

You're flailing. Keep it together, Leaf. I realize I'm annoying you, but that's only because I am looking out for Town's best interests. What's your role, Leaf? Before Meph has time to answer away your fakeclaiming information.
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hector13

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Re: Paranormal 25 - Day 3 brings no sign of Spring
« Reply #478 on: February 19, 2017, 11:42:08 pm »

PFP

Persus

I think you're going to need to claim your action if you stick with that argument, which more 'n likely means claiming your role.

As far as I can tell there is no action that would give a survive result, so you have to be one of those 4-ish things.

Worst scenario I can think of is you're exty, and TDS is your operative. Naturally mind-shielded so a mind-shield essentially protects you from telepaths, though the mind-shield being small tech means you'd probably have to swap it with TDS - exty gets 1 medium and 1 large tech, operative gets 1 medium and 2 small.

Agent operative is the natural choice for an exty op fakeclaim, and the exty op goal is based on their action... though perhaps that needs some clarification from Meph:

Meph: if an exterminator operative takes no action and is investigated by a telepath, what would the result be?

Having thought of that, it could be TDS is the exty and you're the operative, though this doesn't really make sense...



As I'm curious:

doll

How come you're voting Leafsnail? you seem to think they're a survivor, which worst case gives us 3 players against if they side with the dopps, and there's still 10 players left so... there doesn't seem much threat from a scum-siding survivor at this point.
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doll

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Re: Paranormal 25 - Day 3 - Part 1 - What is known
« Reply #479 on: February 20, 2017, 12:55:24 am »

Because Jack AT is a cool guy and all active players could do well to emulate his spirit, I'll split this post into three parts and post them as they are finished.

Part 1 - What is known:

First up: player roles:
hector13 - claimed observant guard, seconded by TDS's scanner claim, TDS (and thus hector) will be clear by Day 4
TheDarkStar - claimed Agent Operative, scanned hector13, PM'd hector his role D2, PM'd doll hector's humanity N2, outed his tech to doll and hector13 D3, will clear self by Day 4
Tiruin - claimed Intelligence Scientist,  isn't a war vet
Persus13 - Tiruin claims to have a (Shakeragian) telepath inspect result of survive on Persus13, Persus13 claims the result is based on his action from Night 1 alone
Deus Asmoth - softclaimed telepath with unkown results on Leafsnail and TBF, leafsnail claims Deus Asmoth is a telepath with survive result on Leafsnail
doll - claimed Observant Guard to webadict D1, claimed Observant Guard publicly D2
webadict - claimed War Vet to doll during RVS, noting that he would turn his guns off during N1, claims war vet who has left his guns off this whole time
Leafsnail - claims Deus Asmoth contacted him D2 regarding a 'survive' mindscan result DA had on leafsnail, claims not to be survivor
4maskwolf - claims war vet D3, with guns on every night
TheBiggerFish - claims war vet D3, with guns on every night

Choice questions:
I'll only answer some (and they'll be answered by the later parts anyhow) but certain things may be useful for someone other than myself to understand my reasoning on right this second:
doll

How come you're voting Leafsnail? you seem to think they're a survivor, which worst case gives us 3 players against if they side with the dopps, and there's still 10 players left so... there doesn't seem much threat from a scum-siding survivor at this point.
Survivor is a scum role.
That said:
In my prior post, I essentially outed that in my view the high risk dopps were Leafsnail, Deus Asmoth, TheBiggerFish, or 4maskwolf, here arranged in the order of scummyness as I saw them at that time (and right now, since I haven't produced major analysis since then).
Notice that the player who has the 'survive' result on Leafsnail is second in that list?
The chance of a Leafsnail-Deus Asmoth scumteam is not inconsiderable.
At the same time, DA might be scum and have a legitimate 'survive' result on Leafsnail.
DA could be entirely unaware that Leafsnail is scum (siding), and outing his result for all the usual reasons (i.e. appearing authentic) that one would do so as scum.
Pretty well everything which applies to scum!DA also applies to town!DA.
Leafsnail is extremely far from clear, despite whatever misconceptions otherwise he might hold and/or be trying to sell, so he's not a bad lynch in the general case anyhow.
doll: Is War Veteran the role webadict claimed to you early D1?
Yes.
He also noted in that first claim that he intended to leave his guns off N1. We didn't talk about it since then (actually we haven't communicated out of the thread since the edge of RVS).

Persus13
Is it at all possible that Tiruin is lying about the inspect on you?
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