We've actually got a case to build here.
As disappointing a thing to add to a case is, I'll note here that his RVS questions were of the ugly 'what would you do if X' kind.
My thoughts:
fillipk is scum
My case:
fillipk is conflating 'anti-town' with 'scum' very strongly, and seeking as much as he can to avoid giving offense and earning ill favor. He also places very strong importance on third parties, and often tries to shift the conversation towards them (as inoffensively as possible). This is a very weak case, except he gave an unexpected and truly anti-town response to my earlier PM about being an alien survivor, almost as if he hadn't yet given up hope of courting me as a key vote later in the game as opposed to outing my potentially very suspicious claim.
My evidence:
The PM:
I'm actually an alien survivor.
I can only assume you're scum from your behavior.
What tech do you want me to pick to help us for the game end?
Like I said I was thinking holdout blaster for it's tech-swapping options for lynches.
I'm not scum, but I won't lynch you or reveal you at all, as you said the town loses out.
This matter-of-fact reply doesn't indicate any doubt as to my role as the survivor. It was already obvious that I was not the survivor (I had drawn a tremendous amount of attention, which is never good for your lifespan either way) and was drawing more heat every second. Why would I act that way as an alien, and why would fillpk not capitalize on the opportunity to reveal my suspicious behavior?
Simply because
if I was an alien fillipk would
not want me outed. The strongest proponent of this view is by far and away the scum team.
The flop:
Doll: First you claim kook, then exterminator and then survivor, are you going to stick to one of those roles?
Again, these are hardly roles worth claiming on D1. I had more than strongly enough signaled alien survivor to be showing up as a 'scum please don't kill me' role even though that's a very suspicious role indeed, while the exterminator claim was an obviously fake rhetorical device.
The fact that he asked this meant that he was legitimately asking a player
if they would stick with their anti-town roleclaim. There aren't many categories of player who are inclined to be legitimately interested in the specifics of an anti-town role
as detailed by that anti-town player, since such implies a
desire to work with an anti-town role.
That's generally not a strong pro-town position to hold.
The flap:
I also find it weird how webadict is covering for Doll and echoing the, "I think Fillipk is scummy" sentiment of Doll. I could be wrong though.
I just love the ambiguity of the "I could be wrong", which I'll cover later in this case.
Here we can see fillipk's growing realization that I am town (as opposed to third party - remember that in this narrative fillipk is scum and therefore knows that I am not). fillipk is uncomfortable after being called out on his behavior with the PM, to the point where he conflates it with my making a case (or at least raising a suspicion) against him. These are all the same thing to fillipk though, because it means I am hunting for scum and am pointing at him, and that's not something he's comfortable with. He can't really come out and say that though, because it's not a great thing to try and sell, so he's trying to lower the energy of the point rather than confronting it head on.
Indecision & politeness:
Interesting, has there ever been 2 Kooks in a paranormal game before? Anyway doesn't change whether I find you scum or town based on your actions
A vague and pointless game comment, casting doubt on my claim (which was at that point not necessarily extraordinarily suspicious) and thus myself and yet rescinding any doubt of offense.
3. It's going to work fine, even with players talking about the role ambiguity people still are either mafia, third party or town, the only difference is that we don't know the exact numbers of third parties out there so scum hunting is still the number 1 way to find scum so whatever way you do it is fine as long as it works.
Similarly, this indicates a focus on roles, at a time when I was discussing a past meta where I tunneled fillipk for a scumslip (as town - speaking in overly modal tones about my townishness; the nature of the game demanded tunneling and we were in a bad spot as well). Why avoid commenting on the obvious topic of tunneling? Simply, fillipk had bigger concerns, which was making sure that my hunting remained directed at third parties rather than at scum exclusively.
By the way what did you mean by quickchat, I know pms are allowed, does that just extend to those too?
Shakerag's "are you scum" RVS question was fairly obvious, while fillipk's response doesn't actually make sense (PMs had already been discussed in the section he is referring to, so it's hardly as if he's making a mistake in conflating the two). This feels suspiciously like a low modality, contrived version of the common townslip which occurs when new players are unfamiliar with scum mechanics.
I agree that its likely 2+ will die tonight, but you really don't think the third parties are a big threat except the exterminator? I asked a question about exterminators, what do you think about that?
More third party focus.
Why the third parties?
Oh right, because you're scum and they're the main thing you are thinking about on D1.
So you don't want Doll lynched so they can practice influencing everything in the game? Seems like a shitty reason to me. I am in agreement with Leafsnail here that lying is almost always bad for the town.
This quote is fantastically hilarious and almost stands on it's own.
My main problem with what he has said is that he's trying to give social proof (i.e. the authority of apparent majority opinion) to a player who's voting me for being anti-town, while casting shade on the opinion of a player bringing a very strong town game (not necessarily a towny player).
More clearly: he's failed to engage with the actual point of webadict's post, which is not that I am towny, and more that he and hector are scummy. Failing to engage with that suggests a desire to bury that.
I'm an easy choice to shift the blame to, because popular consensus is that I'm not helping the town, but am more likely to be a town player. A great deal of that consensus comes from fillipk, actually.
A note on fillipk & hector:
I don't understand the hate for Hector13, he's going after TheBiggerFish who has been in a decent amount of games and should realize that this behavior isn't accepted here. Even if he is posting from phone there are post numbers or he could just post less, but more meaningful content which is always an option.
fillipk doesn't prompt shakerag to explain his suspicion of hector, and instead goes straight to defending him.
It's almost as if he doesn't need to wonder about what hector's role is.
He also victimizes TBF, which is hilarious because TBF is drawing plenty of heat for his anti-town behavior because it's visible while anybody actually worried about players slipping past would be looking at those bastions of lurking behavior known as TDS, 4mask, or RattyB. TBF is about as active, visible, and readable (not very, not very, not very) as hector, so it's an interesting case to support.
If fillipk was more confident in declaiming me, I would be less suspicious of him. But as it stands, he's flicking around without picking sides, as opposed to the more town-sided option of flicking around, rapidly picking and changing sides.
In other words, he needs to commit, even it it's just until he commits to something else.
Please, I don't want to lynch Doll yet, I'm not voting Doll. We aren't pressed for time and while anti-town is bad it's not scum. As for the PM. What am I going to do, add a third claim to the list of claims by Doll with no proof to back them up, I see that as more scummy then keeping silent about it.
Why does he not want to cast doubt on me when I act suspiciously? Either he sees me as town, and should be defending my honor, or he sees me as not town, and he should be committing heavily to an indictment of my play and behavior, throwing as much tar at me as possible to see what sticks.
He isn't though, so I find it hard to see him as town here.
As for the Hector thing. The argument I'm seeing is that people are complaining about him going after TBF for being lazy which doesn't strike me as a scum thing to do. So if there's another argument that would be nice to see.
For all honesty I would prefer a TBF lynch over anyone else right now. Doll can be ignored but TBF is being lazy when there is no need to be lazy, and when pressured they just posts more in the lazy fashion then improving the quality of their posts.
There are lots of inactive and otherwise unhelpful players in this game right now.
TBF is one of them. So are TDS and RattyB. So is hector, who is similarly inactive and unhelpful, though less obviously anti-information.
Hmm, anti-information, where have I heard that before?
Oh right, it's what he uses to justify calling me anti-town. He's well aware that I was being anti-information on purpose, since he was in the theory thread where I outlined the strategy,
For all honesty I would prefer a TBF lynch over anyone else right now. Doll can be ignored but TBF is being lazy when there is no need to be lazy, and when pressured they just posts more in the lazy fashion then improving the quality of their posts.
TBF is an easy lynch because he's both visible
and unhelpful. I'm second (or first, realistically) in line to that title, but I can defend myself so fillipk doesn't want to tunnel me at all. By keeping his options open with me he can avoid appearing to tunnel TBF, even though that's pretty well what he's doing at the moment in setting him up for a lynch off of hector's work.
There are less helpful players, but they aren't as visible so they aren't as easy to push on without revealing the fact that you're just pushing on inactives (where pushing on TBF is easy because it can be construed as 'pressure' to get him to 'change his play (or get lynched)').
This is TBF's meta though, so there's no reason to think that he'd not be useless here. He's a suspicious as any other player who hasn't built their town game in the thread yet.
Did I ever contradict myself. I am reasonably suspicious of both Doll and you at this point but not enough to want to lynch you or Doll. As you said everyone targets you with night 1 actions so I have no need to lynch you day 1 as you generate more information this way. As for Doll, I hoped on the I think Doll is anti-town bus but between them and TBF I would prefer to get TBF because I think Doll might actually end up playing better after day 1, where as TBF has notoriously put very little effort into his posts even after day 1.
The way he switches to being 'suspicious' of me (and Wuba) is amazing, since it lets him try to conflate Leafsnail's anti-town punishment vote with his 'suspicion'. Yet, he's thinking that my play will improve after D1, which if I was suspect would imply that he should make his case now while it's still at it's strongest and my slips are freshest in the town's mind. He can't though, because his case is that I'm easily lynchable, not that I'm scummy.
]Also, Wubba, this is the crux of the case against Doll. I agree with this basically 100% and don't have anything meaningful to add so going after Doll is akin to bandwagoning. Same can be said of TBF, that's why I'm not voting TBF, just letting people know where I stand on both issues and, if it came down to it, who I would vote for.
Isn't it just wonderful how he can agree 100% with a player who is voting another player, yet not vote?
Isn't it just fantastic that
on Day 1 his is afraid of committing to even
a single vote, when he has two players he consistently comments on the anti-town behavior of (and finds another 'suspicious').
@Irony
Sure if I don't have anyone else I actually think is scum I would rather hit an obnoxious player then random another player.
Even though that player isn't scum?
Is this because you don't
want to hit scum, since you are scum?
Author
Topic: Paranormal 25 - Game over! Town victory! (Read 81255 times)