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[webadict]

I'm gonna be honest, I would've killed 4mask.

So you would have committed suicide?

Yep. You can't win as a Dopp in this particular game. They had ONE anti-kill measure. Possibly two if Leafsnail is a Scientist with a Body Double. PWVs are notoriously swingy, which is why I'm generally against them in games. Bleh! They get exponentially more problematic the longer the game goes for, and the more of them you have. You either get super fast games, or super broken games.

[4maskwolf]

I'm gonna be honest, I would've killed 4mask.

So you would have committed suicide?

Yep. You can't win as a Dopp in this particular game. They had ONE anti-kill measure. Possibly two if Leafsnail is a Scientist with a Body Double. PWVs are notoriously swingy, which is why I'm generally against them in games. Bleh! They get exponentially more problematic the longer the game goes for, and the more of them you have. You either get super fast games, or super broken games.

That's honestly why I didn't suspect that TBF or you was a PWV until Fish claimed, because one is swingy enough by itself, let alone two or three.

I looked back and have settled my mind somewhat, I say we lynch Leafsnail and nightkill TBF, then figure out what to do from there if neither of them is scum.

Tiruin: Don't forget to give the shield to hector tonight, if you don't you're as good as claiming scum since there's no reason for you (who is being protected by a guard chain) to hold onto it.  Please don't claim scum, I really, really don't want to eat that ghost chili pepper...

[4maskwolf]

The alternative, I suppose, is to go for the three PWV ending, where the scum is forced to kill eventually and commit suicide by war vet (or we lynch them before that).  If we believe that everyone who has claimed it is indeed a PWV, that's the truest form of foolproof victory.

[Persus13]

The problem is that if Leafsnail isn't scum, its one of the PVW at this point

[4maskwolf]

The problem is that if Leafsnail isn't scum, its one of the PVW at this point

I don't see how that's a problem.

If we lynch leafsnail and kill one of the PWV's tonight, one of two things will happen: a) hector will lose his shield or b) TDS will be nightkilled.  That next day lynch another PWV, and either TDS dies (if he wasn't dead already), hector dies (if he lost the shield previously) or hector loses the shield.  The town will still have TDS/hector13, Persus13, and Tiruin to lynch the final PWV, overriding even a scum enchanter.

If we think there's even the slighest possiblity that Tiruin is scum, we can also go with a different approach: lynch or kill everyone who isn't a PWV and let the scum (if they aren't dead already) blow themselves up on one of their fellow war vets.

[Persus13]

That was more in response to the alternate plan.

[4maskwolf]

That was more in response to the alternate plan.

Assuming all PWV claims are accurate, that still leaves one scum in the midst of two PWVs, which forces a town victory because the scum eventually have to kill and get killed themselves.

That being said, that is a big assumption, so it should only be done if the general consensus is that all PWV claims are accurate (I believe that they are, but I know doll was constantly harping on the idea that one of the PWVs is a survivor so it's obviously not a view shared by everyone.

[TheDarkStar]

I'm also fine with lynching Leafsnail.

[4maskwolf]

Wait hold up.

I think I've figured it out, I just need confirmation on one thing.

Mephansteras: If a war veteran takes a night action (through being scum, being gifted tech, etc), is their "kill everyone who visits" ability turned off?

Because if it is, the last scum is TBF.

As I think everyone here knows, Leafsnail sent us some very interesting reading last night: namely, a PM conversation that he'd had with DA during D3.  Now, obviously, this PM conversation could be fabricated, and I wouldn't put it past Leafsnail to do so, but there are a few interesting tidbits in it that, when combined with stuff in the thread, indicate that TBF is the last scum.

When TBF first posted this post, I got incredibly suspicious of why he wouldn't just roleclaim in the moment, since in almost all cases the only reason to delay roleclaiming like that is if you need to discuss with a scum partner.  This post by DA further compounds it, since it sets him up to confirm any claim made by TBF.  There's also the fact that he didn't claim his kill result on the night he supposedly got it: as scum, that kill result is gold for trying to force a mislynch, and at the very least you don't lose anything for doing it since you did tell the truth about their alignment.  Unless, of course, you don't want to throw that kind of suspicion on them because they are your scumbuddy.

The scum went into N2 not realizing that there were very few targeting roles in the game (and that all surviving ones were protective) and it makes sense that they would keep the guard up on their PWV and use their telepath, who can claim their scumbuddies goal when they have to claim to cover for that night, to perform the nightkill.  I find it more likely that the scumteam used their telepath to kill in hopes of picking up kills on a couple of townies with the PWV than the idea that Leafsnail went through the effort to fabricate those PMs.

[Persus13]

That's very convincing actually. TBF

[webadict]

Wait hold up.

I think I've figured it out, I just need confirmation on one thing.

Mephansteras: If a war veteran takes a night action (through being scum, being gifted tech, etc), is their "kill everyone who visits" ability turned off?

Because if it is, the last scum is TBF.

As I think everyone here knows, Leafsnail sent us some very interesting reading last night: namely, a PM conversation that he'd had with DA during D3.  Now, obviously, this PM conversation could be fabricated, and I wouldn't put it past Leafsnail to do so, but there are a few interesting tidbits in it that, when combined with stuff in the thread, indicate that TBF is the last scum.

When TBF first posted this post, I got incredibly suspicious of why he wouldn't just roleclaim in the moment, since in almost all cases the only reason to delay roleclaiming like that is if you need to discuss with a scum partner.  This post by DA further compounds it, since it sets him up to confirm any claim made by TBF.  There's also the fact that he didn't claim his kill result on the night he supposedly got it: as scum, that kill result is gold for trying to force a mislynch, and at the very least you don't lose anything for doing it since you did tell the truth about their alignment.  Unless, of course, you don't want to throw that kind of suspicion on them because they are your scumbuddy.

The scum went into N2 not realizing that there were very few targeting roles in the game (and that all surviving ones were protective) and it makes sense that they would keep the guard up on their PWV and use their telepath, who can claim their scumbuddies goal when they have to claim to cover for that night, to perform the nightkill.  I find it more likely that the scumteam used their telepath to kill in hopes of picking up kills on a couple of townies with the PWV than the idea that Leafsnail went through the effort to fabricate those PMs.

Why would you investigate TBF after he just got scum lynched?

[webadict]

Like, literally, who's gonna go, "Geez, TBF seems suspicious after he helped lynch scum. Better investigate!"

Bussing, maybe. But bussing after saying "I have a role that doesn't go out." seems super far-fetched.

Like, how does that help the Town to investigate him?

[4maskwolf]

Why would you investigate TBF after he just got scum lynched?

I mean... ya'll already know that I suspected him that night and would have investigated him if I'd had the chance, and there's a possibility he would draw town protective roles to him hoping to save him from an incoming scumkill.

Also, consider this: Deus Asmoth was one of the main people trying to defend against the "TBF could be a bussing scum" allegations , as seen here and here.

Like, literally, who's gonna go, "Geez, TBF seems suspicious after he helped lynch scum. Better investigate!"

Bussing, maybe. But bussing after saying "I have a role that doesn't go out." seems super far-fetched.

Like, how does that help the Town to investigate him?

Gimme a chance to respond, geez, I was eating dinner

[4maskwolf]

tl;dr: I think we should lynch TBF and nightkill Leafsnail, rather than the other way around, since I think TBF is more likely to be scum than Leafy.

[webadict]

Whatever.

TBF.

Shorten.