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Author Topic: muskets!  (Read 2204 times)

cbfog

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muskets!
« on: June 13, 2008, 02:49:00 am »

Our dwarves can build ridiculously complex magma systems and create traps a la Indiana Jones which cause enormous decapitating axe blades to sling out from the walls

Could the dwarves maybe have muskets??? Probably this has been suggested a million times before, but whatever.

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Kagus

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Re: muskets!
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2008, 02:56:00 am »

1:  Suggestions forum.

2:  "Search" button.

3:  Rule of thumb:  No technology that came around after 1400 AD.

ShadowDragon8685

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Re: muskets!
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2008, 02:56:00 am »

To hell with Muskets.

I'd love to see Dwarven technology advance to the level seen in Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura.

Then we could have our dwarven miners shuttled to their work sites on steam locomotives and Legendary Gunnerdwarves with elephant rifles and repeating rifles mowing down hordes of trolls and goblins armed with crossbow and musket.

And of course, Ballastae might (or might not) be supplanted by Dwarven Cannons.

[ June 13, 2008: Message edited by: ShadowDragon8685 ]

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ShadowDragon8685

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Re: muskets!
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2008, 02:58:00 am »

quote:
Originally posted by Kagus:
<STRONG>1:  Suggestions forum.

2:  "Search" button.

3:  Rule of thumb:  No technology that came around after 1400 AD.</STRONG>


3: lets muskets in, since they were invented in the mid-1300s.

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Moron

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Re: muskets!
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2008, 03:02:00 am »

If not muskets, then how about rockets; I'm sure these were being used by the Chinese both as weapons and fireworks before 1400
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cbfog

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Re: muskets!
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2008, 03:06:00 am »

oh don't be ridiculous, next using your "pshaw!" ironic mocking system we'll arrive at nuclear weapons and well thats preposterous
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ShadowDragon8685

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Re: muskets!
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2008, 03:07:00 am »

Why not? Dwarves already have Atomsmashers and Quantum Storage Devices. :P

Still, I don't think adding Victorian Steampunk would be either too hard or a waste of time - I'd love the ability to play a DF Steampunk Fortress.

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Kagus

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Re: muskets!
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2008, 03:09:00 am »

Fun as it would be, I don't think it really fits into DF.  However, the ability to mod it in would be much appreciated.

ShadowDragon8685

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Re: muskets!
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2008, 03:13:00 am »

quote:
Originally posted by Kagus:
<STRONG>Fun as it would be, I don't think it really fits into DF.  However, the ability to mod it in would be much appreciated.</STRONG>

Well, it could be an option for truely "hardcore" players to discover - IE, as a very rare event, a technological breakthrough will occur if you have a multiple-skill dwarf in fields related to the science in question.

IE, a Mechanic/pump operator would have the requisite knowledge to figure out how to harness the power of expanding water to learn to employ the steam engine. The higher his skills go, the more chance per year that he discovers it. A Marksdwarf/Alchemist could discover explosive power and it's firearms applications, a Miner/Alchemist could discover explosive power and it's mining applications, a Siege Engineer/Alchemist could discover explosive power and it's heavy weapons applications...

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cbfog

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Re: muskets!
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2008, 03:13:00 am »

I don't envision muskets being more deadly or efficient or "better" than any existing weapon, just that if you kick Johnny Peasant into the army and give him a gun he can hold it and fire it in the general direction of his enemy...
not that he would hit them in any case, but a succesful strike would be extremely deadly
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Karpatius

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Re: muskets!
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2008, 03:16:00 am »

Fireworks could be a possibility, firing them causing happy thoughts to all dwarfs outside and revealing and possibly scaring invader away.

Muskets are too modern, so flintlocks would be more realistic. Or did flintlocks arrive after muskets...?

I could see dwarfs using a cannon, though. Saltpeter processed at a workshop and iron/steel bars wasted for cannonballs wouldn't be too modern for our beloved dwarfs. Or just use some of the alcohol for the charge; better quality increases damage.   :p
Hmm... spiked cannonballs? Ouch... And would encircled cannonballs curve in flight...? This needs testing!
Would atleast fling limbs across the entire map if a gobbo happened to be shot at short range...

[ June 13, 2008: Message edited by: Karpatius ]

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Karpatius cancels Eat: thirsty.
Karpatius cancels Drink: no water source.
Karpatius cancels Drink: no water source.
Karpatius has died of thirst.

cbfog

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Re: muskets!
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2008, 03:20:00 am »

muskets are just iron tubes packed with gunpowder and something that could kill you if it was propelled fast enough...

a musket definitely came way before a flintlock; a flintlock was an early but sophisticated upgrade of just shoving lead balls into a tube backed by explosives... it actually enabled the shooter to aim rather than just sort of shoot in the general direction

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ShadowDragon8685

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Re: muskets!
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2008, 03:27:00 am »

quote:
Originally posted by cbfog:
<STRONG>I don't envision muskets being more deadly or efficient or "better" than any existing weapon, just that if you kick Johnny Peasant into the army and give him a gun he can hold it and fire it in the general direction of his enemy...
not that he would hit them in any case, but a succesful strike would be extremely deadly</STRONG>

Early firearms were significantly worse than the crossbows of their times - a proper, winch-pulled crossbow could easily put a steel bolt through plate-mail. A musket ball would just break the guy's ribs, the crossbow bolt would critically destroy his lungs.

Either could be deadly, but the crossbow bolt would be much more likely to be deadly.

The advantage of firearms over crossbows was that they did not require extraordinary strength to operate in a timely manner, or extraordinary training to be effective - you could get a bunch of Joes, give them the weapons and a few weeks of training, have them line up and volley fire at The Enemy. They're even better firing from fortifications, of course, but then what isen't?

They're also easier to produce, being much simpler in operation than a crossbow.

Really, they could be nice, but you'd probably still want Legendary Marksdwarves using crossbows. That said, sharpshooting with one is possible if it's a high-quality weapon and a high-quality shooter.

Rockets would be good siege weapons, too. They fly a semi-random distance (partially determined by "aiming distance" set on the siege weapon, partially randomized based on the shooter's siege operator skill), and then explode, dealing great damage in a wide range.

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Wild Goose

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Re: muskets!
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2008, 03:47:00 am »

Urist Watt has entered a Strange Mood.  Urist Watt has finished construction on a Steam Engine.  All craftsdwarfship is of the highest quality.  It menaces with spikes of Steam.  It has hanging rings of Lignite.

Or better yet...
Urist Watt has entered a Fell Mood...
Can you imagine a steam engine made from the flesh and bones of a dwarf?

Seems like a way to convert wood and water to power.  Magma steam engine, perhaps?  Probably need to keep it topped off, and it probably leaks water/scalding steam, and it might occasionally explode.
And of course, with steampunk you get steam vents, fog, and smog.  Smog and fog are like miasma, but they give a Victorian thought instead of a negative one.

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"Adventurer's Motto; Take everything not nailed down and nail down whoever tries to stop you."

"Whatever happens, we have got the ballista and they have not."

The dwarven economy is just a stand-in, from what I understand. As it is, it represents an actual economic system about as well as poison ivy represents a salad.

Normandy

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Re: muskets!
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2008, 07:55:00 am »

British thought... in a dwarf? Are you mad? The universe can't possibly take that sort of tampering!
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