Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[TankKit]

((I assume my character is at this meeting to?))

[Demonic Spoon]

((I assume my character is at this meeting to?))

((Yes, Government Discussion, which is what I opened, is between all ministers (including you!), the Dictator, his advisor, and select invited senators.))

[Demonic Spoon]

((Don't worry Spoon, Edgar Hoover was completely loyal to the US of A and Camilla is too!))

((Camilla is loyal to some foreign "US of A"?! I knew she wasn't trustworthy!  ))

"I must apologise. As ordered, I have dealt with the unrest...unfortunately, I may have been somewhat too focused on this one task and I accept the this error completely. I have not surveyed the forts at all. Suffice to say, I will have to begin this immediately."

"Such is forgiveable, but sooner rather than later now yes?"

"As for the play, there is no need to bother the bureaucrats about this. Tulip is a good friend of mine. Suffice to say, it was simply the story of a humble shop owner and his family and their experiences during the last few years. Painted our government in a good light...relatively speaking. If you're too moralising you just bore the audience. Need to keep it balanced and engaging, yes? My people also tell me the play has helped revitalise the capitol's art industries, which is a further boon for the government."

"I see. That is all to the good then."

"Carlos, I can acquiesce to that request. Consider yourself in charge of the bureaucracy until a minister is active at the post for it. Rename it as you will. And ensure that they inform us on any possible crisis, I'd rather head off a problem before it becomes a problem

"I thank my dictator for the privilege of handling this great responsibility. Henceforth I shall rename it to the "People's Bureaucracy", by the people, for the people.

As always you will be the first to know any potential crises I myself discover."

After a little bit of thought rather than splitting up the provinces and cities and running half myself, I've decided to run all of the provinces myself. The Cities will have administrators appointed to their municipality and report to the provincial governor which in this case will be me. This will allow a centralised administration without overloading it.

"This seems workable dictator, though it may be wise to specify who exactly these city administrators would be. Members of the senate elected from the relevant cities?

We would however caution you that running six provinces and your own personal army may be putting too much on your plate"

((IIRC armies count as assets, and if you want the revolutionary/stormguard army to be under your personal control they'll probably count against your asset limit. I'll note I still have some free asset slots for some provinces or cities. >_>))

Roberto, an energetic man in his mid 40's, stands to reply, "Indeed I did, Adviser. Rather, I personally went to the Isles to meet with the ones in charge, and was actually quite surprised by their willingness to cooperate with our state. Lord Mayor - as he's called - Germanus Martinus seemed very cordial. Seems he's kept a tight lid on unrest in Corneddo, and the city's thriving off of the Empire's destruction. Would be willing to join us, but would want to keep their autonomy. The isle with the naval base - Pernocari - was pretty successful as well. The admiral stationed there has five Frigate Units along with a Flagship Unit. Didn't seem too friendly, but apparently he's running out of supplies. Is starting to get pretty desperate, but he isn't quite convinced on joining us. As for the rest of the islands - the governor responsible for them, Lord Valerius, is willing to hand control over to us in exchange for a comfortable life in the Capital and a high-ranking post within the government."

"And of the diplomats to the Sudenland Republics? Or was that too many tasks? It is difficult sometimes to judge what is too high a workload for one man. If it was then I offer apologies on behalf of myself and the Dictator."

"I would also like to add that we don't necessarily need to give into these men, we simply need to export the Revolution to the Isles. Show the world we're doing better than everyone else, export this very enlightening news to those more willing to serve us and then fund the ensuing coup. As for this admiral...well the options available seem even better. Cause a mutiny amongst his fleet and simply hire the replacement. Give him a letter of marque or offer him some other lucrative deal. Quite simple.

"While the spread of our ideals is certainly appealing, I would caution against potentially alienating other nations who would see us as a threat if we 'export Revolution', forming a coalition against us that could spell our doom. We must remember Minister Camilla, that we are a small nation, and still very vulnerable.

I would however, be fully in favour of causing a mutiny against the admiral if he cannot be brought to our side with reasonable terms."

[Demonic Spoon]

"The only issue of importance remaining is the creation of a finalized constitution, for which we would like to invite Senator Cain to this govermental discussion to offer his input. This will no doubt be a long and laborious affair, so best to start early."

((Cain12, feel free to hop in here at any point. A draft of a more comprehensive constitution would be particularly welcome.))

[Taricus]

((To the best of my knowledge the army isn't an asset per se. And in any case would be easily rectified by assigning officers to watch over the logistics of those units anyway.))

[DontBanTheMan]

Roberto bows respectfully to Alavar before responding to the Adviser, "Unfortunately, I bid most of my own time on the isles and it seems someone appropriated the use of all the bureaucrats, so I unfortunately had no-one to run errands. However, I will make sure to make a visit to the Suderland Republics and deliver our goodwill."

(( Do keep in mind Taricus that your current Politics score enables you to have three direct subordinates, not including ministers. This means you'd have to assign someone politically skilled to watch over some of the city administrators, assign some of the cities to ministers, or assign two cities to each administrator to avoid inefficiency penalties.

As for the army thing - individual units do not count as assets. The number you may lead is decided by your strategy score. However, if you're directly managing the logistics, makeup, and training of an army (of up to around ten units) it will count as an asset for administrative purposes. If you leave most of that stuff up to the army's commanders, it will simply count toward your max units. The army commanders do not count against your subordinate or asset amounts unless you want to take a more direct role in the management of the army. Simple things such as level of training or amount of coin they're allowed are fine, but if you want to decide their makeup (%infantry, cavalry, etc.), formations, training (in what capacity? Think of the police - Camila wanted them trained as Police, but if she simply let them be trained as soldiers and left them alone they wouldn't have taken up an asset), etc. you'll have to take them under your control or the control of a subordinate.

Cain12 - you are now in the government meeting (just to make that clear).

Demonic Spoon - the Bureaucracy is now under your control and as such, feel free to make amendments to the way turns are posted. It will also take up two asset slots however, unless you want the Lead Bureaucrat to maintain direct control over it (in which case it will take up a subordinate slot instead).

Apologies if I missed anyone or anything. I check this game very frequently but I work ten hours a day four days a week, making it hard to keep up on those days. ))

[Taricus]

((Hrmm... Would I be able to institute a proper hierarchy to ensure that power isn't concentrated too heavily in the hands of one person?))

[DontBanTheMan]

((Hrmm... Would I be able to institute a proper hierarchy to ensure that power isn't concentrated too heavily in the hands of one person?))

(( Yes. The downsides of this would be decentralization of power and making it harder to manage; giving you less direct control and increasing the system's susceptibility to corruption. The upside would be you could maintain indirect control over more of the country. ))

[micelus]

((missed this stuff DontBantheMan:

"And what skills does Lord Valerius have? If I may be frank, putting a noble in control of a ministry might send the wrong messages. Would seem a bit at odds with our anti-feudal ideology, yes?"

"Forgive me if I misunderstand, but this Lord Mayor controls only Corneddo, which I assume is the main city on the Isles, yes? The Governor on the other hand is in charge over the whole of the Isles, correct?"))

[DontBanTheMan]

((missed this stuff DontBantheMan:

"And what skills does Lord Valerius have? If I may be frank, putting a noble in control of a ministry might send the wrong messages. Would seem a bit at odds with our anti-feudal ideology, yes?"

"Forgive me if I misunderstand, but this Lord Mayor controls only Corneddo, which I assume is the main city on the Isles, yes? The Governor on the other hand is in charge over the whole of the Isles, correct?"))

Roberto responds to your queries, "He may be a noble, but many of those within the government were - no? If there is a place for those that were once considered inferior there is also a place for those that were once considered superior; his possession of a title doesn't make him any less qualified. As for his actual skills - I didn't spend that much time with the man, I can't say for certain. However, being sent to a border area - only those with military experience are assigned such posts. The small size of his holdings might mean he's a poor administrator, or it may mean that he didn't get along well with the Viziers, which may bode ill for his political skill. However, this is all guesswork and speculation; there's no knowing what the man is actually good at, if anything.

The Governor was in charge of the whole of the isles, but Corneddo split off during the revolt, as with the naval base. The Governor controls most of the archipelago and one of the larger islands, but very little that we actually need. However, his political, administrative, and/or military experience as well as the legitimacy he could provide for ownership of the islands may very well be valuable to us."

Dictator - feel free to convene the Senate at your leisure. Whenever you've heard enough, we should bring any matters you or the ministers find are importance to the attention of the Senate (note: even if no senators post during the Senate discussion, you will still know how well/badly the NPC senators respond to a matter. PC characters with strong arguments can drastically sway the mood of the Senate).

[Taricus]

"Then it is settled, Lord Warr will be assigned the task of finding the appropriate position for Valerius.

Regardless, if there's nothing else anyone intends to add Then I shall send summons for the senate to convene."

[TankKit]

Lord Warr was apparantly deep in through, and not fully paying attention. "Hm?"

[Cain12]

Spoiler: OOC (click to show/hide)

((Damn you, I was hoping to just complain and nitpick on occasion, now I'm obligated to actually try and help. Will get on it, assuming I don't let rl commitments get in the way too much. Will probaly still be on the short side or done in bits. Also am "amused" no one else has bothered to start/folks have been ignoring it.

Also yeah, will probaly bring up the whole criminal in charge of our police, corruption, and intelligence services thing next senate meeting or whatever if no one else does anything about it. Really ought to separate those, before she builds and integrates her criminal empire into the state, replaces/blackmails/manipulates the senate with her cronies, and offs the Dictator to take his place/put her puppet leader in. She probably already has her people in this national police, so they can turn a blind eye to her cohorts or muscle out competition down the line.

Apologizes for the incomplete mess, while I in no way plan to post a full thing, I wish to at least get this post out before the senate meeting, if only to kill any delusions that I will be doing it all and am planning to post it, could not have picked a worse week. Or day, posting now, my bin has tiny bugs in it, and they are crawling up my wardrobe, bye. Discuss, ignore, whatever.))

Sorry to intrude, and thank you for allowing me to join you, as the Adviser said there is a momentous task before us, one I am honored to have a part in, that ought to at least have some discussion. In general there is much to discuss, though it might be best to start at the start, lay out some thoughts or ideas.

With that in mind, a name is needed, perhaps something like the "Estrella Constitution", or "The Constitution of Estrella"?

For our preamble, or introduction, I'd propose:
"We, assembled members of the former Orvendian empire, do come together on [insert date here] to ratify this constitution to establish the Independent State of Estrella, to protect the rights of the people and to return lasting prosperity, justice, and order to their lives."
Doesn't directly antagonize anyone, has a nod to our past, and paints us with good intentions.

Where we go next is open for discussion, I think basic rights should come next, though since we've already outlined those we can come back to it later and work on the details of government and government positions now.

Before we get started on part about the Dictator himself proper, would it be too bold of me to suggest we consider a title change, Lord, Leader, Director, Grand something, etc, of the Independent State of Estrella? Just something less negative or tyrannical sounding, probaly stay away from the more noble sounding titles though, people might not like that, true nobles certainly wouldn't.

Anyway, establishing who the Dictator is ought to be done (followed by the Adviser, Ministers, Senate etc. Some of this could be used in a more general sense, also should mostly just be putting down what we know). Powers, salary, duties, eligibility, appointment, succession, etc.
I feel the Dictator would know better than I what powers he has and what he wants. ((Sorry, gtg.))
Would offer the opinion he ought to pick his own ministers, with the senate giving their approval as a formality or even as a requirement, though during the first half year after appointment I'd argue he shouldn't be able to change his adviser without approval, so as to ease the transition.

The Dictator's salary, if he gets one, ought to be a fair sum, enough he can live comfortably if he is lucky enough to retire. Am no accountant, should figure that out.

Would suggest no Dictator be younger than 30 years, at a stretch 25, and no older than 75. Whether this means they retire at 75 or simply can not run/be elected at 75 should be clarified. They should be a citizen of at least 10 years, with a formal education, no criminal convictions. I'd suggest they ought to come from the senate or another government position, or have experience in that area, though that might irk the people, and no doubt the senate wouldn't elect someone unqualified so is a moot point.
All genders, wealth classes, or races are permitted, though obviously that doesn't mean all would be able to actually win the position. Obviously they must be sound of mind and body.

The senate votes for the dictator as established. Preferential system was proposed, but that could mean different things, could someone clarify what exactly that means?

In terms of succession, would recommend the Adviser take the helm, perhaps with some limitations on power, during the interim between the death/removal/retirement of the old dictator and the selection and appointment of a new one, if such a gap exists.

((Might be useful for "inspiration": https://www.constituteproject.org/?lang=en
https://www.constituteproject.org/constitution/German_Federal_Republic_2012?lang=en Is fairly straight forward looking, starts with basic rights, which I think is probaly the right way to go, give a glance.))

[Demonic Spoon]

Damn you, I was hoping to just complain and nitpick on occasion, now I'm obligated to actually try and help. Will get on it, assuming I don't let rl commitments get in the way too much. Will probaly still be on the short side or done in bits. Also am "amused" no one else has bothered to start/folks have been ignoring it.

((I wasn't meaning to force you, just like, gently nudge. Sorry if I was being pushy.))

Also yeah, will probaly bring up the whole criminal in charge of our police, corruption, and intelligence services thing next senate meeting or whatever if no one else does anything about it. Really ought to separate those, before she builds and integrates her criminal empire into the state, replaces/blackmails/manipulates the senate with her cronies, and offs the Dictator to take his place/put her puppet leader in. She probably already has her people in this national police, so they can turn a blind eye to her cohorts or muscle out competition down the line.

((Yay! Someone who agrees with me!  ))

Before we get started on part about the Dictator himself proper, would it be too bold of me to suggest we consider a title change, Lord, Leader, Director, Grand something, etc, of the Independent State of Estrella? Just something less negative or tyrannical sounding, probaly stay away from the more noble sounding titles though, people might not like that, true nobles certainly wouldn't.

"I am not sure what you mean senator Cain. Dictator is a storied title from the earliest days of the empire, when the senate would elect a ruler to carry out the will of the government in times of crisis."

((OOC: Dictator didn't really gain its worst negative connotations till relatively recently, and hails back all the way to the roman empire. Julius Ceaser was dictator for example))

[micelus]

"I suppose we best deal with this matter now. Thank you Senator Cain for your suggestions. Now, let me add mine."

Spoiler: Camilla's Constitution Suggestions (click to show/hide)

Preamble: Senator Cain's suggestion is acceptable.

Section 1: The Sovereignty of State
1. Estrella is a unitary republic.
2. The constituent regions of Estrella, as well as other territories, are the sovereign lands of its people and administered by the Estrellan State.
3. New territories may be admitted into the State as desired by the government through its head official, the Dictator [change the title as required].

Section 2: The Governance of the State

Article 1
1. The government of Estrella is composed of Executive, Legislative and Judiciary Branches.
2. The Executive is composed of the Dictator, their Cabinet, and their staff.
3. The Legislative is composed of the Senate and their staff.
4. The Judiciary consists of the police force, the judges and their staff.

Article 2
1. The Dictator is elected by the people of the State through its Senate. Each Senator is allowed to nominate a candidate for the Dictatorship and a candidate must receive 60% of the Senate's voting members to be elected. Candidates must have been employed in the State's service for a minimum of 10 years or in special circumstances, be approved for the position by the High Court as well as Senate. Should a Dictator be appointed under the latter circumstances, half of the Senate and High Court must immediately resign.
2. The Dictator is given total executive power in government and commands the highest rank in the State's military forces. This executive power is delegated to his Cabinet in the form of Ministries of which there is a variable number, depending on the needs of the State.
3. The Dictator may be impeached if 75% of the Senate approves this impeachment. Impeached dictators are forbidden from taking part in politics.
4. The Cabinet is appointed directly by the Dictator and the Senate may not transgress their right to do so. Cabinet members may be removed only by the Dictator or the Senate if 75% of all voting members agree to this. Cabinet members require no experience in government.

Article 3
1. The Senate is an advisory council to the Dictator and his Cabinet and is also in charge of legislative decisions. Each Senator is responsible for representing the people that have appointed and/or elected them.
2. The Senate is composed 500 elected members and 100 appointed members. Additional seats may be created as required by the State.
3. Each state within the State may appoint 10 of its own senators without consultation. Each of these senators must have at least 10 years of government service or have participated in the Estrellan  Revolution. The terms of these senators are permanent unless removed by their respective states.
4. Any remaining seats for Appointed Members not held by a state-appointed member may be selected by the Dictator.
5. The elected Senate seats are to be elected directly by the people.  Senatorial elections are to take place every two years, with half of the electable senate being elected with the other half being elected in the next two years.
6. All Senatorial Seats will consist of a geographic area to be determined by the Dictator. All nominees for a Senatorial Seat must reside in the Seat's geographic bounds and have resided there for at least 5 consecutive years.
7. An elected senator must receive 51% of all votes in the Seat in which they ran to become a Senator.
8. A Senator may not be removed from their office unless convicted of treason, incompetence, old age or negligence of their duties. All senators are immune to criminal trials until they have left their office.

Section 3: The Citizenry of the State

Article 1
1. A citizen is person who has professed loyalty to the Estrellan State, its laws and people. An Estrellan Citizen has the right to be protected by Estrellan laws and accept the responsibilities implied while on Estrellan soil.
2. All Estrellan Citizens are permitted the right to free speech, free worship and gainful enterprise.

Article 2
1. Enfranchised citizens are those who are permitted to vote for Senators.
2. All literate citizens are enfranchised citizens.

Section 4: Offences Against the State

Article 1
1. Treason is punishable by death.

Article 2
1. Gambling, prostitution, the trade of illicit narcotics is illegal and punishable by law.