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[Badargo]

Hello!

I really love this game. There arent many things that can make me laugh hard as reading stories about it: gaudeables biten off, punching hearts out, kisat dur, its all so amazing.

So I started venturing in adventure mode. Couldnt find elf companions and got killed by bogeyman, couldnt evade and survive the bogeyman cuz of the many coins i was carrying, had bogeyman spawn on top of me while i was sleeping and have me killed, had a river stream thrown me against a wall breaking my bones and drowned, fell in a pool of water without ramps and drowned, had goblins chop off my hand cuz i was nauseous for 3 days and drowsy, got a dozen scars and a smashed finger cuz I trained with cats without a shield out, had the same cuz I was wearing armor without the armor user skill, had a mummy curse me and saw the cats take my teeth out... yes, it wasnt very easy but was fun and now I can survive it!

First I'd like to share a very nice finding I had.

Looks like Kinesthetic sense is a GREAT stat. With it maxed I can dodge maybe four times more attacks.

Now for the questions:

1- Attributes value:
Wiki tells me to become either a vampire or necromancer after maximizing my attributes. Is there a way to find out if they are maxed?

2-Flank attacks:
I believe that attacks from the sides of from behind have some kind of bonuses. Sadly it seems very hard to position my self in an enemy flank as they end up facing me 99% of the times I dodge them. Is there an easy way to achieve that?

3-Store names colors.
I know that green names mean store that are in the open, lots of tables, cats, dogs and meat. But what about white and yellow store names?

4-Multi attacks
Are they worth it? How do they work? The way I see, they take many turns instead of a single turn 0.o

5- Punches and kicks.
Id like to know if their contact area is smaller then that of war hammers. Do they deal as much damage? I been exploding heads with punches and kicks without any experience in these skills so Im very curious.

6-Legendary Skills
I noticed that even after I get legendary level, the skill experience bar keeps growing up like forever... is there a skill cap in adventure mode?

7- Goblin Arrows
Id like to know if shields are better then dodging to deal with arrows. Till now arrows and melee attacks mostly miss me, but I wonder if was lucky and shields are a must.

Thank you very much!

[☼Another☼]

'l'ook at the slabs. They'll tell you what store they are.

[Max™]

The wiki has nonsense info about vampires, they absolutely do not prevent attribute growth, becoming a werebeast absolutely does not give an attribute boost. I don't make wiki accounts because I have a problem with that sort of thing, I'm not going down that rabbit hole.

Punching and kicking have effects listed in the creature, they're the same format as the weapon raws.

There is no skill cap.

Multi-attacks have an accuracy cut.

I'm pretty sure attacking from the side has an effect but it is hard to do consistently unless you're in stealth mode.

You can bat arrows out of the air with weapons, can't catch them yet though.

[Badargo]

The wiki has nonsense info about vampires, they absolutely do not prevent attribute growth, becoming a werebeast absolutely does not give an attribute boost. I don't make wiki accounts because I have a problem with that sort of thing, I'm not going down that rabbit hole.

Punching and kicking have effects listed in the creature, they're the same format as the weapon raws.

There is no skill cap.

Multi-attacks have an accuracy cut.

I'm pretty sure attacking from the side has an effect but it is hard to do consistently unless you're in stealth mode.

You can bat arrows out of the air with weapons, can't catch them yet though.

So if I start with  strength value X (making my STR attribute cap 2X according to the wiki) and I become a vampire doubling my STR to 2X, do you mean I can still grow its value despite the attribute cap?

Concerning punchs, what I want to know is if they can outdamage a silver warhammer for example

[D_E]

The wiki has nonsense info about vampires, they absolutely do not prevent attribute growth, becoming a werebeast absolutely does not give an attribute boost. I don't make wiki accounts because I have a problem with that sort of thing, I'm not going down that rabbit hole.

The example vampire interaction definitely includes tags that should prevent physical attribute growth (and decay).  I don't know if it actually does prevent growth in adventure mode, but if it doesn't it's probably a bug.

The wiki does not appear to claim that becoming a werebeast gives an attribute boost, and the example interaction agrees that there is no change in your base form's stats.

So if I start with  strength value X (making my STR attribute cap 2X according to the wiki) and I become a vampire doubling my STR to 2X, do you mean I can still grow its value despite the attribute cap?

Concerning punchs, what I want to know is if they can outdamage a silver warhammer for example

You should not be able to grow your physical attributes (STR included) after becoming a vampire.  However, I usually don't pay attention to my attributes, and usually don't attempt to become a vampire, so it is possible there is a bug in play that means you can after all.

I've always found punches and kicks to be lackluster compared to actual weapons, but it's possible I don't build my adventurers correctly.

[Badargo]

The wiki has nonsense info about vampires, they absolutely do not prevent attribute growth, becoming a werebeast absolutely does not give an attribute boost. I don't make wiki accounts because I have a problem with that sort of thing, I'm not going down that rabbit hole.

The example vampire interaction definitely includes tags that should prevent physical attribute growth (and decay).  I don't know if it actually does prevent growth in adventure mode, but if it doesn't it's probably a bug.

The wiki does not appear to claim that becoming a werebeast gives an attribute boost, and the example interaction agrees that there is no change in your base form's stats.

So if I start with  strength value X (making my STR attribute cap 2X according to the wiki) and I become a vampire doubling my STR to 2X, do you mean I can still grow its value despite the attribute cap?

Concerning punchs, what I want to know is if they can outdamage a silver warhammer for example

You should not be able to grow your physical attributes (STR included) after becoming a vampire.  However, I usually don't pay attention to my attributes, and usually don't attempt to become a vampire, so it is possible there is a bug in play that means you can after all.

I've always found punches and kicks to be lackluster compared to actual weapons, but it's possible I don't build my adventurers correctly.

Sooo, if I start with x Str, double it with training hiting the cap with 2x str, I get a vampire boost making it 4x str but I cant raise any atribute afterwards right?

So how can I see if the natural cap of 2x has been met?

Oh and btw... I also found this in the discussion session of the wiki about vampires:

"NOEXERT: NOPAIN: NOBREATHE: NOSTUN: NONAUSEA: NO_DIZZINESS: NO_FEVERS: PARALYZEIMMUNE: NO_EAT: NO_DRINK: NO_SLEEP: NO_PHYS_ATT_GAIN: NO_PHYS_ATT_RUST: START: 0"

Does it mean vampires players dont get tired, dont feel pain, dont get stunned, dont have nausea, dont feel dizzy, dont have fevers, dont get paralyzed, dont have to eat, dont have to drink, dont have to sleep, dont gain attribute points, dont rust?

I already have noticed my former vampire adventurer didnt need to sleep, eat, never got nauseous no matter how much blood I drank,...

So a vampire adventurer doesnt need any points spent on neither willpower or endurance?!?

They can swimm all over the world and never drown?

Omg...

[D_E]

Sooo, if I start with x Str, double it with training hiting the cap with 2x str, I get a vampire boost making it 4x str but I cant raise any atribute afterwards right?

So how can I see if the natural cap of 2x has been met?

Oh and btw... wiki also says vampires never get tired.

Would it means a vampire has infinite Endurance?

I believe the 4x final value is correct.

Press 'z' to see your stats, then 's' to show your attributes.  This shows the descriptive adjective, rather than the numerical value, though.  I don't think there's a way to show the numerical value without an add on.  As noted, though, I usually don't pay much attention to my attributes.

Vampires never get tired, yes.  So they can do stuff like sprint indefinitely.  Mechanically this isn't linked to their Endurance score, instead it's due to their NOEXERT tag.  Functionally, it may be the same as infinite Endurance, though.

[Max™]

The bit about werebeasts was hopefully removed, apparently it did say that there was some attribute boost at some point.

I've tested the vampire stuff directly, make a character, save, topple a statue til the sense creature icons show up, go wrestle wildlife, your stats will go up.

[peasant cretin]

Punching and kicking (and biting!) have an advantage over the war hammer (any weapon actually) versus weapon-using NPCs who have shields.

Your war hammer attack can be defended in 3 ways: parried by the weapon-using NPC, blocked with a shield, or dodged (you miss).

Punches and kicks however can't be parried at all. They can be defended in 2 ways: they can miss (dodge), or the weapon-using NPC can shield block the punch/kick.

Now say your character is large enough and strong enough to grab the NPC and maintain that grip -> they can no longer dodge. Now there's only 1 defense, the shield block.

[Badargo]

Punching and kicking (and biting!) have an advantage over the war hammer (any weapon actually) versus weapon-using NPCs who have shields.

Your war hammer attack can be defended in 3 ways: parried by the weapon-using NPC, blocked with a shield, or dodged (you miss).

Punches and kicks however can't be parried at all. They can be defended in 2 ways: they can miss (dodge), or the weapon-using NPC can shield block the punch/kick.

Now say your character is large enough and strong enough to grab the NPC and maintain that grip -> they can no longer dodge. Now there's only 1 defense, the shield block.

And if you remove their shield...

All your wild, heavy, precise and multi strike attacks become a sure hit?!?

If I grab someone without a shield and issue a multistrike with 10 hits... really?!?

[thatkid]

Punching and kicking (and biting!) have an advantage over the war hammer (any weapon actually) versus weapon-using NPCs who have shields.

Your war hammer attack can be defended in 3 ways: parried by the weapon-using NPC, blocked with a shield, or dodged (you miss).

Punches and kicks however can't be parried at all. They can be defended in 2 ways: they can miss (dodge), or the weapon-using NPC can shield block the punch/kick.

Now say your character is large enough and strong enough to grab the NPC and maintain that grip -> they can no longer dodge. Now there's only 1 defense, the shield block.

And if you remove their shield...

All your wild, heavy, precise and multi strike attacks become a sure hit?!?

If I grab someone without a shield and issue a multistrike with 10 hits... really?!?

No, because you can still just "miss". Or they can dodge.

[D_E]

I've tested the vampire stuff directly, make a character, save, topple a statue til the sense creature icons show up, go wrestle wildlife, your stats will go up.

Someone should probably report that in the Mantis bugtracker .

And if you remove their shield...

All your wild, heavy, precise and multi strike attacks become a sure hit?!?

If I grab someone without a shield and issue a multistrike with 10 hits... really?!?

Pretty sure you can still miss a grabbed target.  They can't dodge away from you, but that's not the same as an auto-hit.  I've definitely missed targets I was grappling.

[peasant cretin]

Pretty sure you can still miss a grabbed target.  They can't dodge away from you, but that's not the same as an auto-hit.  I've definitely missed targets I was grappling.

Interesting! That would account for your dodge stat growing via opponent miss, when you're set to stand ground/stand ground and won't leave your tile if dodge is activated.

[Max™]

Punching and kicking (and biting!) have an advantage over the war hammer (any weapon actually) versus weapon-using NPCs who have shields.

Your war hammer attack can be defended in 3 ways: parried by the weapon-using NPC, blocked with a shield, or dodged (you miss).

Punches and kicks however can't be parried at all. They can be defended in 2 ways: they can miss (dodge), or the weapon-using NPC can shield block the punch/kick.

Now say your character is large enough and strong enough to grab the NPC and maintain that grip -> they can no longer dodge. Now there's only 1 defense, the shield block.

You can catch a punch, the same as you can catch a weapon, though you can move/dodge/interact and disarm them when it's a weapon, takes a bit different methodology to disarm them when it's literally an arm, though still quite possible.

I could swear the [NO_PHYS_ATTR_GROWTH] tag being broken was noted on the bugtracker somewhere btw.

[peasant cretin]

Punching and kicking (and biting!) have an advantage over the war hammer (any weapon actually) versus weapon-using NPCs who have shields.

Your war hammer attack can be defended in 3 ways: parried by the weapon-using NPC, blocked with a shield, or dodged (you miss).

Punches and kicks however can't be parried at all. They can be defended in 2 ways: they can miss (dodge), or the weapon-using NPC can shield block the punch/kick.

Now say your character is large enough and strong enough to grab the NPC and maintain that grip -> they can no longer dodge. Now there's only 1 defense, the shield block.

You can catch a punch, the same as you can catch a weapon, though you can move/dodge/interact and disarm them when it's a weapon, takes a bit different methodology to disarm them when it's literally an arm, though still quite possible.

I tend to just joint break. Recently though my character has been just biting them. Bites to the head work best as the shake removes their ability to do anything but bite in return. Other than that, not sure what you mean. Unless you mean dwarven surgery.