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[sambojin]

Would love to see the silver and copper hammer results and if they're a "superior material" against inorganics, or if that's just a no-go fight for that weapon type.

The wrestler idea above come to mind as well, mostly for the removal of goblin helmets. As a question, would dogs or trained wardogs remove helmets (considering their zombie-like combat potential against armour), or is it a has-hands thing? I'm worried that a shielded wrestler will mostly shield bash, while an unshielded one is just too vulnerable. Not that dogs aren't, but they're certainly more replaceable than dwarves (and unfortunately more raisable by necros due to the ease of kills).

So removing armour, a hands thing, intelligence thing, or what?

[PatrikLundell]

Helmet removal is supposed to be an intelligence thing (so undead should not do it, for instance, nor should giant cave spiders), but it also ought to require hands or or other suitable appendages (elephant trunks, or octopus tentacles, for instance).

[Bumber]

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140544.msg7073586#msg7073586

What are the requirements for an opponent to remove helmets? Does the creature in question need to be intelligent, or can large predators remove helmets as well?

I guess people know better than I do how it actually worked.  It was supposed to be a free grasp + intelligent, but I've seen non-intelligent creature doing lots of wrestling through the years.

[fragfish]

Please excuse the long silence, I've had other things on my mind. It's great to sea that this hasn't totally submerged by now.

Anyhow, the results for silver war hammers are in. Here is a comparison with iron and steel. I might extend that table to cover a cheaper material next, it'd be kind of interesting.

Squad Performance:

Squad/Enemy	Goblin Pikemen	Goblin Macemen	Goblin Swordmen	Goblin Lashers	Undead and Necro	Bronze Colossus	Iron Men
Iron Hammers	8.8[0.9] (20)	5.3[3.6] (15)	6.2[2.9] (18)	4.5[3.8] (12)	0 (0)	0 (0)	0 (0)
Steel Hammers	8.5[1.3] (20)	6.1[2.9] (17)	8.1[1.6] (20)	7.3[2.1] (19)	0 (0)	0 (0)	0 (0)
Silver Hammers	8.9[0.9] (20)	6.7[2.9] (18)	7.1[2.4] (20)	7.8[1.5] (20)	0 (0)	0 (0)	0 (0)

For the weapon efficiency (minor/major/severe/fatal injuries), I could give the tables, but they'd be really boring. The differences are at most 1%, usually far less, with a standard deviation of at least twice the difference.
In other words, the differences are all well within error.

The conclusion for me is that there's not a large difference between silver and steel in effectiveness - but steel is highly valuable for any other combat gear, and silver is usually plenty, so silver war hammers are much more economical.

[Fleeting Frames]

Not sure cheaper material has a point with so small differences. Still, thanks for running that.

[muldrake]

The conclusion for me is that there's not a large difference between silver and steel in effectiveness - but steel is highly valuable for any other combat gear, and silver is usually plenty, so silver war hammers are much more economical.

I'm glad to see this, because I usually start out with silver hammers.  I often have nothing but tetrahedrite and that means lots of silver.  Copper would be interesting too because that's an even trashier metal.