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[piecewise]

All this talk of resurrection has got me pondering my choice of playing engineheart. I mean sure, I've got a fairly healthy endure stat already and a bit of body should something get through, so I probably won't die all that fast.

But I do have a tendency to somehow get into these situations where even a high leveled character with decent stats won't help me *coughnukedoorcough*, which worries me a bit.

You can be soul jar'd.

Not really on topic, but if when people die, they go to the deep sea, and when people are in the deep sea, monsters come, we can expect monsters to show at death like flies to a corpse, right? Sounds awesome if you ask me.

Only when people start attempting resurrection do they start showing up in the real world.They show up in the deep sea immediately, but not in the real world. Otherwise I think humanity would have ended long ago in a sort of demon death spiral.

So, I have two questions:
Can we avoid the high risk of death from Giant’s/Titan’s/Behemoth’s Engine installations by installing one of them into a body and then being resurrected or otherwise transferred into it?
Can I gather knowledge to make a reference guide? (+x bonus to find rolls made searching for information in the archive)

I suppose? But wouldn't it make more sense to just try and get implanted and then if it fails resurrected into that body?

Sure.






Alright so here's my idea for how to handle this stuff related to resurrection and such.

When you die you lose 5 stat points from a random stat. Slow tick mind loss isn't permanent.
Building the new body means rolling 1/2 the  total stat points of the body, +10 (Ie starting character would be 60)
Putting the mind in means rolling equal to or higher than the mind points +30
Each subsequent resurrection is done at +10 difficulty to all related rolls. Only counts for traumatic deaths.
Stats or mind can be intentionally lowered to allow rolls to be successful, but stats cannot be HIGHER than in the original body. This doesn't count equipment or engines.

Incarnation is tricky because throwing a lot of penalties on it basically makes high level magic unusable because they are required to die in order to use it. So basically it's gonna work like this:
If you purposefully die via going to level 6, incarnating works the same as what I mentioned above but with no penalties. If you died via damage, then it works as above, with penalties and increasing difficulty, and you have to do everything yourself.




Of course I now have people whispering to me that the entire system is broken and that nothing works. And we're like 3 posts into the game.

[Pancaek]

Of course I now have people whispering to me that the entire system is broken and that nothing works. And we're like 3 posts into the game.  I'm starting to get the "No one is ever happy, so why bother" blues here.

All talk of balancing aside, maybe we should just play a mission and see how it turns out before we start tearing the system apart. Unbalanced or not, as long as the system doesn't get in the way of fun I don't think it will really become a problem. If we play a mission and people aren't having any fun because of the system, then we've got a problem.

-edit-: what I'm trying to say is, let's just play a mission and see what happens in practice.

[piecewise]

I've edited the rules in a small but important way:

1. I've changed the outnumbered modifier so that you get -10 for every enemy past one on one (Works on enemies too)
2. You can only deal damage to one enemy per turn. Any other successful rolls just avoid damage.


This way high powered enemies can be fought with numbers and lower powered teammates won't be insta-gibbed upon attempting to help out in a fight.

[Parisbre56]

Make creating a body and resurrecting it cost knowledge. That way people have to spend knowledge they could have spent elsewhere to revive. So people would have to make a choice between their money and their friends. Plus, unless you are prepared and have the knowledge needed to revive someone, you actually have to spend some time before being able to revive them.

Also, to those of you trying to balance stuff, you could just make death so bad reincarnation is only worth it on really high level chars or if you're cut off from the drill and  desperately need the manpower. For everything else, you can just accept death and start with a new character.

Also also, sometimes I think piecewise might be better off leaving some things vague. People can't abuse flaws they don't know about. And it's not like balance is super important in a game that's not primarily PvP. People come here to have fun with the story and the world, not to prove they are the very best, like no one ever was.

[Egan_BW]

Questions: (With apologies. I promise there's not much Tinker here.)

• How long is a rest to restore Stamina, in hours? (More specifically, to restore my 36 Stamina, if that matters.)
  
  
• Do I still have to sleep 8 hours a day, or does it suffice to simply rest to regain stamina?
  
  
• If yes to above, what are the effects of sleep deprivation?
  
  
• Does sleeping restore Stamina? (I assume yes, but asking is safer. )
  
  
• Do Enginehearts sleep? Thoughtful Corpses?
  
  
• Is there any formula to how long it takes to fabricate items, or are you going to come up with a figure for each item?
  
  
• Is there even a day/night cycle down here? Do people keep track of "days", even without a sun? If so, how long is a day?
  
  
• Is it possible to make a weapon that immobilized enemies? (eg a lasso or a bola gun to tie people up. Worm Harpoon is kinda this, but only decreases Move.)
  
  
• If yes to above, can in immobilized enemy still use Blast/Fight to defend?

And yes, a valid response to some of these questions is "I regret giving Build times in hours."

[Radio Controlled]

Also also, sometimes I think piecewise might be better off leaving some things vague. People can't abuse flaws they don't know about. And it's not like balance is super important in a game that's not primarily PvP. People come here to have fun with the story and the world, not to prove they are the very best, like no one ever was.

But Paris, to annoy PW is our real test, to strain him is our cause!

Anyways, you're right that we shouldn't be stressing the small points, but some things didn't seem like they'd work the way pw intended when compared to how the rules were written. And it's probably easier to fix some things now than when it's been underway a while already. Either way, I think we're good to go now, so we can see how this works out for a while (and just in time for blast dig-off too!)

demon death spiral

That sounds like a metal album. Or a very scary sort of contraceptive.

[Ozarck]

I do foresee this game having a similar power apartheid to ER, if it lasts any length of time. You can already see the powerful gamers flocking to the Sanctuary, for instance, and Dev going teh opposite route and heading straight for the archetype that offers the most roguelike experience.

And then there's us replaceable meatshields.

[Egan_BW]

The disparity in ER was mostly down to who joined earlier and got more XP/Tokens. Here there is no direct XP, just items, and most items are intended to be Built by players, AKA me and MJ. The growth of power is governed and determined mainly by us engies.
There may be some disparity in Archetype power, but everyone can choose what archetype they want at character creation, so it's fully voluntary. As seen, for example, by Dev's character.

So yeah, not perfect, but honestly not in the same way as ER.

[Devastator]

Of course I now have people whispering to me that the entire system is broken and that nothing works. And we're like 3 posts into the game.

Seems fine to me.  There are no omnipotent NPCs, and the more complete layout of the borer is interesting me with the possibilities of tactical combat.  All else that's gotta occur is murder.

[The Lupanian]

All else that's gotta occur is murder.

Leave that to me

[piecewise]

Questions: (With apologies. I promise there's not much Tinker here.)

• How long is a rest to restore Stamina, in hours? (More specifically, to restore my 36 Stamina, if that matters.)
  
  
• Do I still have to sleep 8 hours a day, or does it suffice to simply rest to regain stamina?
  
  
• If yes to above, what are the effects of sleep deprivation?
  
  
• Does sleeping restore Stamina? (I assume yes, but asking is safer. )
  
  
• Do Enginehearts sleep? Thoughtful Corpses?
  
  
• Is there any formula to how long it takes to fabricate items, or are you going to come up with a figure for each item?
  
  
• Is there even a day/night cycle down here? Do people keep track of "days", even without a sun? If so, how long is a day?
  
  
• Is it possible to make a weapon that immobilized enemies? (eg a lasso or a bola gun to tie people up. Worm Harpoon is kinda this, but only decreases Move.)
  
  
• If yes to above, can in immobilized enemy still use Blast/Fight to defend?

And yes, a valid response to some of these questions is "I regret giving Build times in hours."

A few.
Rest
Yes
Both do.
No formula now, but if I were to make one it would probably be something like just whatever the bonus it gives in hours.
Not really, but on the map it takes roughly 5 hours to dig through one block.
Yes, What it would probably do is actually do something like force a move roll to try and escape and be able to move again
Depends how it is immobilized.

[piecewise]

I'm in IRC tonight for talkings if you'd like.

[Gentlefish]

The disparity in ER was mostly down to who joined earlier and got more XP/Tokens. Here there is no direct XP, just items, and most items are intended to be Built by players, AKA me and MJ. The growth of power is governed and determined mainly by us engies.
There may be some disparity in Archetype power, but everyone can choose what archetype they want at character creation, so it's fully voluntary. As seen, for example, by Dev's character.

So yeah, not perfect, but honestly not in the same way as ER.

I'm a builder. Fite me.

[Egan_BW]

The disparity in ER was mostly down to who joined earlier and got more XP/Tokens. Here there is no direct XP, just items, and most items are intended to be Built by players, AKA me and MJ. The growth of power is governed and determined mainly by us engies.
There may be some disparity in Archetype power, but everyone can choose what archetype they want at character creation, so it's fully voluntary. As seen, for example, by Dev's character.

So yeah, not perfect, but honestly not in the same way as ER.

I'm a builder. Fite me.

Okay.

[piecewise]

I made those res changes I talked about earlier.

I've also made plans for core system changes if things don't work out with the current system. The core system would look pretty different but the actual mechanics would be much the same. It would basically involve changing things to a d100 roll for everything, something like our current Wizards setup but with bigger numbers.