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[Weizen1988]

So, im building a tavern, meeting areas are too small, they cannot fill the whole area, so I have to designate it from a table, which somehow allows a much larger room, ive had this tavern designated through the table for about 8 years, not a single visitor except diplomats, but dwarves use it just fine, ive read some conflicting posts saying that it has to be designated via meeting area, in which case, how can I make a larger meeting area to fill the whole tavern, with the limited size rooms I can either get most tables and no booze stockpile, or booze stockpile and few tables, if that is not the case and designated tavern via table works, and the only requirement is set to allow visitors (mine is) what have I done wrong? I have 40 rentable rooms, two poets and a tavern keeper, yet my 400ish dwarf meeting hall has never been visited once.

[Fleeting Frames]

You can just have multiple meeting areas linked to same location.

Though you get some weirdness when the zones overlap, i.e. double-counting things in it. (Also, I read there used to be a bug quite recently where designated room overlapping with container of location messed up the latter - don't use containers outside of libraries and hospitals myself, however.)

Are you on an island, or embarked with..iirc, local map (1 region tile or 16x16 embark squares) having ocean on two or more sides? I recall both of those can block visitors.

[Weizen1988]

You can just have multiple meeting areas linked to same location.

Though you get some weirdness when the zones overlap, i.e. double-counting things in it. (Also, I read there used to be a bug quite recently where designated room overlapping with container of location messed up the latter - don't use containers outside of libraries and hospitals myself, however.)

Are you on an island, or embarked with..iirc, local map (1 region tile or 16x16 embark squares) having ocean on two or more sides? I recall both of those can block visitors.

Nah, still on jungled sleepervolcano, no ocean in the whole world, weird thing is its the same size as my original attempts tavern, same setup and everything, and that one worked. I did not know locations could extend across multiple areas, does it actually matter if its a meeting area or designated from a table though?

 I do know that most years, in spite of nothing going on, i get "some migrants came, despite the danger" or whatever, so maybe shit is going down in the vicinity of my fortress and just not hitting me?

[PatrikLundell]

I think the general advice is to use areas rather than room designations for taverns, but it might not actually matter. Most of my worlds have seen very few or no visitors, though. I think there is a need for civs to reach some kind of critical size to send reasonable numbers of visitors out in the world, and the path to the fortress might matter as well. You might want to use legends mode to check on the health of potential visitor source civs.

[Weizen1988]

I think the general advice is to use areas rather than room designations for taverns, but it might not actually matter. Most of my worlds have seen very few or no visitors, though. I think there is a need for civs to reach some kind of critical size to send reasonable numbers of visitors out in the world, and the path to the fortress might matter as well. You might want to use legends mode to check on the health of potential visitor source civs.

So im in legends mode, what menu would contain that information? Most I can see is a lot of attacks by "fiends" (I assume thats a demon) and goblins on a bunch of random places, and I know when I get diplomats from other civs they come with a long list of places destroyed, refugees escaping, or recently reclaimed areas, theres clearly some kind of larger war going on that is missing me most of the time, periodically a 300 or so strong goblin wave comes by, but I just shut the gates and hang out smoothing floors for a while. So its the war probably?

Will having my tavern designated both from the dining room and from the meeting area cause problems?

[PatrikLundell]

I use Legends Viewer to look at XML data exported from Legends Mode, and there population numbers are listed under each civ.

The only known problem with double designation (table + zone) is double accounting of goblets, and probably instruments. I wouldn't invite "unknown unknowns" though.

[Weizen1988]

I use Legends Viewer to look at XML data exported from Legends Mode, and there population numbers are listed under each civ.

The only known problem with double designation (table + zone) is double accounting of goblets, and probably instruments. I wouldn't invite "unknown unknowns" though.

Hmm, so there are about 30 elves left in the world, about 100 humans, and ~8-9k goblins, and im the last dwarves I guess, still get caravans though. So I need to wipe out a bunch of goblin attacks to save the world by thinning their numbers, or make an adventurer to do the same and kill several thousand goblins? I just hope to get enough humans and elves to breed them and save the races, animal people too if they show up, I guess I should have taken the game seriously when it said this was "the age of goblins"

Ok its not quite as bad as I thought, the races are still kinda around, there are about 300 elves and 300 humans, but most are part of the goblins now.

[PatrikLundell]

I suspect you're still out of luck, and that the non enemies are too few to send out any significant number of visitors. They'll breed back over a few hundred years if the goblin (and titan/megabeast) predation is curbed, but I doubt you would want to wait that long...

[Weizen1988]

I suspect you're still out of luck, and that the non enemies are too few to send out any significant number of visitors. They'll breed back over a few hundred years if the goblin (and titan/megabeast) predation is curbed, but I doubt you would want to wait that long...

Can I adventure out, collect followers, bring them all back to my fort, unretire, and try to get them to join you think? I may just get in the habit of if i get bored, retire for a bit, make an adventurer, and try to fight back the hordes, maybe make several more dwarven fortresses, just see what impact I can have on the numbers, I suspect at this point, of about 700 dwarves, and about 600 combined elves and humans, with 9000 goblins, that this is just a goblin world now, sometimes evil wins.

I wonder if I make a bunch of steel gear and stick it around the fort, will it be there in adventure mode for me to take, and vice versa, could outfit most species of adventurer that way. Like build a little cabin full of gear at the edge of my fort as an adventurer house, stock it with things i collect, give stuff back and forth.

[Thisfox]

I was told that a wealthy fort was more capable of attracting what visitors are out there.

Another outside-the-box solution is to build a lot of successful local forts, retiring but not abandoning each one, and then attract visitors from each of them.

[Weizen1988]

I was told that a wealthy fort was more capable of attracting what visitors are out there.

Another outside-the-box solution is to build a lot of successful local forts, retiring but not abandoning each one, and then attract visitors from each of them.

Is 1.4 million whatever the currency is (Urists?) wealthy?

Ive considered the lot of small forts, maybe if I stick some close to the failing civs I can get some visitors to those, and from those to the mountain home. Either way, I think my new goal is to retake this world from goblins.

Torn between giving any adventurer starting the attempt a full candy coating or just silk and steel (I suspect adamantine is better in most cases or does that end up working like hammers and the armor is too light to be useful?) I have enough that if i decided to I could make full adamantine clothing, armor, and weapons, no platinum warhammers, but silver could do I bet, got an artifact featherwood crossbow too, for what that is worth, probably more accurate or something.

[PatrikLundell]

The problem with lots of embarks is that most of your migrants are going to come from prior embarks (or your civ's other sites), so you're largely shifting bodies around. If you stick with sites long enough for them to produce dwarflets you're obviously adding bodies (but have to subtract the ones destroyed in the fortress production process).

I've heard riches might attract visitors, although I don't really see why... Regardless, there have to be visitors that can be attracted.

Candy armor is better than steel for most purposes, and candy pointed/slashing weapons are great. Candy hammers are useless.

I've got no experience shifting between adventurer and fortress mode, so I don't know what you can take (I know you can bring stuff IN, such as certain slabs).

[Weizen1988]

The problem with lots of embarks is that most of your migrants are going to come from prior embarks (or your civ's other sites), so you're largely shifting bodies around. If you stick with sites long enough for them to produce dwarflets you're obviously adding bodies (but have to subtract the ones destroyed in the fortress production process).

I've heard riches might attract visitors, although I don't really see why... Regardless, there have to be visitors that can be attracted.

Candy armor is better than steel for most purposes, and candy pointed/slashing weapons are great. Candy hammers are useless.

I've got no experience shifting between adventurer and fortress mode, so I don't know what you can take (I know you can bring stuff IN, such as certain slabs).

Yeah, the slab is becoming part of this, Im thinking part of turning back the goblin horde will be raising my own horde of undead goblins. So, candy armor, possibly clothing also because I can, candy spear, sword, and axe (or just spear and axe, sword and axe are both slashing, and of the two axe is probably better) and heaviest hammer I can get, some kind of bow. I wonder if I can make armor big enough to outfit an elephantman in candy armor?

For lots of embarks, I was probably just going to put one nearish to the humans, and one nearish to the elves, see if that can either spread the combat around, somehow defend those areas, or get visitors to those who can then come to my capital. Im mostly doing all this because my civilization came with the name "The Triangular Treaty", which sounds to me like a multi species group intended to stop this horde of goblins than like a proper dwarven kingdom name, so im trying to make an alliance of the free people of the world to fight back an army of goblins from a spooky mountain far away, want to get some elves and humans moved in to give it more that feel. I already fill every caravan with weapons, armor and trade goods, so if the other civilizations model wealth at all, they are incredibly wealthy and well equip, assume both civilizations love me.

[Fleeting Frames]

ᐝᐜᐝ Yeah, history is is one hell of a mess to get right, with wars being possible with the reach - I must have gone through something like four dozen regens on SleeperVolcs for the history seed it ended up as, checking legends mode on fair few to find the optimal end year date.  (Hence the facepalm of using temperate instead of tropical at that time.)

They're usually not so inconsistent with my designs as I tend to go with distance/ocean separation so that desired embark area is reachable by all the civs without them warring against each other. However the requirements of The Grim Sleeper were both unsuitable for that mode of operation and supporting wars.

Even then, I've been surprised by post-worldgen course a fair few times, with stuff like elves, humans and dwarves coexisting peacefully for centuries, then latter being attacked by both of the former before I get the first human caravan.

Just curious, but what were the numbers you had for civs? I assume you increased civs for more towers, which means as far as trade and war goes you still have only the one you meet (plus, humans will totes war with each other), but not necessarily so on visitors.

ᐝᐜᐝ Sadly the other civilizations won't be using your sent donations, they're only useful for improving relations.

You have plenty of goblins, but given how tavern visitors turn hostile when their civ's army comes to attack you I bet you can't get any from their civilization, which leaves the 30 and 100 you mentioned.

Not everyone will become a visitor, only a fraction (sometimes a large fraction - I had one case where third (600) of the elves crossed the ocean to study at dwarven library).

No idea if people capable of visiting will be generated post-worldgen, but you could perhaps confirm (but not falsify) this by downloading Archcrystal save, painting a tavern, temple and library open to all and then looking if any humans visit.

ᐝᐜᐝ If there's less migrants because of the danger, it's because of the danger at your fortress, not somewhere nearby.

ᐝᐜᐝ I've seen mentions here and there that steel is bit better for rigid pieces due it's density, but that matters little in the face of ability to ditch armor user with candy.

Yeah, you can make armor big enough to fit elephantman, though might be worth checking if there are any you can adventure as first. Though in that case the candy armor will actually have some weight (not sure how much this affects, but I know size versus gear weight doesn't scale up well).

On the plus side, elephantmen are far less vulnerable to blunt damage.

Also, I'd say consider using a shield - not sure how unwieldy they are in adventure mode, but even if you plan to avoid direct combat, you still benefit from dodging and blocking arrows and bolts. It should multiply how long you can avoid being hit, starting at 2 for unskilled and going higher from there.

[Weizen1988]

ᐝᐜᐝ Yeah, history is is one hell of a mess to get right, with wars being possible with the reach - I must have gone through something like four dozen regens on SleeperVolcs for the history seed it ended up as, checking legends mode on fair few to find the optimal end year date.  (Hence the facepalm of using temperate instead of tropical at that time.)

They're usually not so inconsistent with my designs as I tend to go with distance/ocean separation so that desired embark area is reachable by all the civs without them warring against each other. However the requirements of The Grim Sleeper were both unsuitable for that mode of operation and supporting wars.

Even then, I've been surprised by post-worldgen course a fair few times, with stuff like elves, humans and dwarves coexisting peacefully for centuries, then latter being attacked by both of the former before I get the first human caravan.

Just curious, but what were the numbers you had for civs? I assume you increased civs for more towers, which means as far as trade and war goes you still have only the one you meet (plus, humans will totes war with each other), but not necessarily so on visitors.

ᐝᐜᐝ Sadly the other civilizations won't be using your sent donations, they're only useful for improving relations.

You have plenty of goblins, but given how tavern visitors turn hostile when their civ's army comes to attack you I bet you can't get any from their civilization, which leaves the 30 and 100 you mentioned.

Not everyone will become a visitor, only a fraction (sometimes a large fraction - I had one case where third (600) of the elves crossed the ocean to study at dwarven library).

No idea if people capable of visiting will be generated post-worldgen, but you could perhaps confirm (but not falsify) this by downloading Archcrystal save, painting a tavern, temple and library open to all and then looking if any humans visit.

ᐝᐜᐝ If there's less migrants because of the danger, it's because of the danger at your fortress, not somewhere nearby.

ᐝᐜᐝ I've seen mentions here and there that steel is bit better for rigid pieces due it's density, but that matters little in the face of ability to ditch armor user with candy.

Yeah, you can make armor big enough to fit elephantman, though might be worth checking if there are any you can adventure as first. Though in that case the candy armor will actually have some weight (not sure how much this affects, but I know size versus gear weight doesn't scale up well).

On the plus side, elephantmen are far less vulnerable to blunt damage.

Also, I'd say consider using a shield - not sure how unwieldy they are in adventure mode, but even if you plan to avoid direct combat, you still benefit from dodging and blocking arrows and bolts. It should multiply how long you can avoid being hit, starting at 2 for unskilled and going higher from there.

I seem to have had 10 civilizations, Interestingly, mine is considered as having fallen.

I actually havent checked what adventurer options I have, was just being optimistic about the elephantman.

Shame about the gifts being of no real use, waste of good metal and materials.