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[Libash_Thunderhead]

I played with a population cap of 1.
After years of boredom, I added several taverns and recruit some guests...
Maybe I should play a human fortress instead? It seems there are endless of them coming to this place, along with their elf and goblin friends.

[Fleeting Frames]

The idea has merit, given human ability to not need alcohol and willing to drink from vampire blood-laden well. Elves, dwarves and goblins have better stat layout overall and for some jobs, but first cannot be necromancer vampires, second need a drink, and third one won't drink nor become necromancers. Still, despite the lower strength the increased size should help with hauling for average human.

There's also a bonus depending on the preferences on your mooding weaponsmiths. Superdwarven - that is, human - size is required to wield two-handed swords, great axes and pikes, which are superior to their dwarven equivalents.

While only dwarves should be able to mood, I recall that Splint had humans mood in his MWDF fort - and if you have foreign visitors, they might as well have foreign preferences, perchance, allowing you to get the above, and perhaps other neat ideas like platinum whips and steel morningstars.

Perhaps also standarize all armor and clothing to be between the size of a human and dwarf so both can wield it.

(And lets not forget the lack of cave adaption - or the supposed lack of trances, which greatly weakens non-dwarven races in group combat.)

[Spriggans]

I recall that anybody crafting armor or clothing will craft it to match its own size.
That is, a human will make human-wearable clothes/armor.
A dwarf will make things sized for dwarves, and so on.

You cannot craft foreign weapons though (whips, scrouge, 2H sword, whatever) - unless you've modded the game pré-world gen - even with visitor citizens.

You did have the 2 first hard coded migrant waves, right ? You must have around 15-20 dorfs then ?

[PatrikLundell]

Unless you specify the size of clothing or armor the size produced will match whoever took up the job, yes, so you shouldn't have mixed race clothiers/smiths sharing the same workshops without specifying size of the equipment produced.

[Fleeting Frames]

@Spriggans: You can mood into foreign weapons (at 1% of other weapons, normally - but a mood is laser-guided by preferences).

1 population cap will block first two migrant waves as well.

[Spriggans]

@Spriggans: You can mood into foreign weapons (at 1% of other weapons, normally - but a mood is laser-guided by preferences).

All hail the holy Platinum blowgun !

[Libash_Thunderhead]

Yeah, I've noticed cavern adaptation thing. Basically human wood cutters are better because they don't vomit.

[Fleeting Frames]

There's also a bonus depending on the preferences on your mooding weaponsmiths. Superdwarven - that is, human - size is required to wield two-handed swords, great axes and pikes, which are superior to their dwarven equivalents.

Welp, never mind this.



ENTITY:FOREST cannot make trap components in vanilla, and this elf, like others in her culture, holds nature to be of greater value than most aspects of civilization.

Via a savescum, I have also determined that preferences are decided the moment you accept Petition to reside for merc/performer, and not sooner.

[Libash_Thunderhead]

My current fort now has fewer guests than it was used to have.
I wonder if they were generated during world gen, or will be generated while the fort is running.

[Fleeting Frames]

Well, Succession world is currently in year 46, and started in 2. Designating a tavern there could perhaps get some visitors who are younger than the world, but tbh I'm not sure why visitors tend to only show up from some places - the above check I'm doing is primarily humans(31), then elves(10), then goblins(2).

What I find happens in the first few years is that guests run around and then settle down or get killed somewhere.

Though, on a brighter note, looked a bit more and did find human who likes great axes among those 31.

[mikekchar]

Via a savescum, I have also determined that preferences are decided the moment you accept Petition to reside for merc/performer, and not sooner.

That explains why adventurers that are already part of a fort do not have any preferences.  That's kind of unfortunate.

[Libash_Thunderhead]

Well, sometimes I feel guests are better source of migrants because at least you have a choice. What's more, you don't need to get a vampire if you want your fort to last forever. I prefer goblins over elves because they don't drink, but for that reason, they can get unhappy thoughts.
And for some reason, most of the bard types have battle skills.

[Fleeting Frames]

Hm...As far as source go, when it comes to the OP in my own quick experiment they certainly roughly could almost match the volume of migration in two years or so, thanks to performance tropes (I also find those can have different composition from regular visitors).

But ignoring the large and potentially quite useful racial advantages, I've I think they tend to have worse useful skills on average - for me, I think the average visitor is up to 11 dancer/poet, 3 in weapon skill and 1 in discipline/armor user/dodger/shield user and usually also novice in 1-4 civilian skills - regarding the combat skill, I've never seen a visitor without at least that much, in fact.

Still, not exactly prime acceptance material. For the higher end, I do see visitors with one to several useful great skills, and occasional decorated/masterwork gear.

- Teacher is a common one, gained through having one or more apprentices. Not too useful at start with the typical lackluster combat skills, but it's slow to rise iirc.
- Speaking of apprentices, I find that those with civilian great skills tend to have been one at some point of another.
- One can have great in random civilian skill(s) on Bards, but you generally can train up to there in 2 years. I suppose animal trainer might be one notable exception, for instance.

- But I think Scholars might be most useful on this front, as their great skills are more likely to be in Studying and 1-5 medical labours. I think this might be the most humane way to get a good medic in under a decade, if worldgen smiles on you.


For that, I find that if I place a library some time after tavern, the scholars have quite a bit of trouble showing up. Combined with the container bug in 2nd designated zone in 43.03, it makes sense to designate library as the first location.

And regarding the above, what I find weird is that skills tend to be so often either novice or perhaps adequate, or most or all the way to great (scholars expected). Migrant skills tend to be more evenly divided among levels. Of course, you can keep visitors in a pond training swimming for stat bonuses for a long while, while migrants need to eat, drink and sleep. Then again, can still train most skill to great in 2 years and also max physical stats, though it'd be easier to just wait.

[Libash_Thunderhead]

My current fort no longer attracts vistors now.
Unlike another fort which I played without migrants, this one has fewer goblins and elves, too few to have their offsprings. There are a few humans and dwarven children, but they are all siblings.

So what now? Should I still wait? Does anyone know how visitors are generated?

[Ironfang]

I'v got a weird thing in my fort with a population cap of 110. There are all these guests that say they are looking for a place for long term employment, but they haven't met with the mayor. What is with that?