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Northern Tetra

54 (50%)

Southern Tetra

16 (14.8%)

Zaldor

16 (14.8%)

Error

14 (13%)

Other

8 (7.4%)

Total Members Voted: 107

[Zazmio]

I think that the saddest part here is that really all the dev had to do was keep expanding industry chains and virtually all of the users would've been happy. Instead he went with all kinds of weird additions that seemed specifically geared towards alienating new players, current players, or both.

There is complaining on the forum about recent changes, that's true; but I wonder if the recent changes are the main reason that people quit or will soon quit.  It seems to me that it isn't just the recent changes that ruin the game, but also fatal flaws that have been there from the beginning.  For example:

- It's more fun to build up your domain from nothing than it is to take over someone's built up inactive domain.  People want to build their own thing, not take over something built up that never feels like it's theirs.  The result is prime real estate becomes filled with abandoned domains no one wants, limiting where new players can start.

- The game dev introduced new continents to give new players undeveloped land, but that just ended up spreading the players out even more, reducing interaction and conflict even more.  Probably.

- A carebear mentality among most players reduces the odds for any meaningful conflict, making the game less exciting.  This is maybe half the fault of the players, half the result of the game's design.  People don't want to risk their carefully built up domains in a war.  It's also fairly easy to spam so many knights that you become nigh invulnerable, and it becomes stupidly hard to attack someone once they get up some walls.

- It shouldn't be possible to endlessly spam knights to make yourself invulnerable, basically rendering meaningful conflict extremely unlikely.

- I can't tell if the game dev intended for there to be conflict in the game, or he intended it to be "medieval FarmVille" with no conflict.  It kind of seems like he tried to design something that appeals to both the carebear and the competitive player, and failed.

- The maximum price caps on goods for sale in the market have a profoundly negative impact on the game.  They are supposed to curb inflation and help new players, but in fact they do neither.  New players have a hard time getting some goods they need because no one is going to bother selling them on the market if it's not profitable.  The price caps ensure that you will have to produce just about everything you need yourself, encouraging owning multiple domains in different climes and increasing micromanagement.

I could go on.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

There were only ever two or three things players had been calling for. Ever. At all.

1.) Better, more diverse, and rebalanced combat and in-depth siege mechanics.

2.) Naval stuff.

3.) Expanded production chains and more complex industries.

... and he implemented literally everything BUT those things, not to mentioning actively removing or changing features that players enjoyed.

[Zangi]

- A carebear mentality among most players reduces the odds for any meaningful conflict, making the game less exciting.  This is maybe half the fault of the players, half the result of the game's design.  People don't want to risk their carefully built up domains in a war.  It's also fairly easy to spam so many knights that you become nigh invulnerable, and it becomes stupidly hard to attack someone once they get up some walls.

- It shouldn't be possible to endlessly spam knights to make yourself invulnerable, basically rendering meaningful conflict extremely unlikely.

- I can't tell if the game dev intended for there to be conflict in the game, or he intended it to be "medieval FarmVille" with no conflict.  It kind of seems like he tried to design something that appeals to both the carebear and the competitive player, and failed.

- The maximum price caps on goods for sale in the market have a profoundly negative impact on the game.  They are supposed to curb inflation and help new players, but in fact they do neither.  New players have a hard time getting some goods they need because no one is going to bother selling them on the market if it's not profitable.  The price caps ensure that you will have to produce just about everything you need yourself, encouraging owning multiple domains in different climes and increasing micromanagement.

I could go on.

Game dev seriously wants there to be conflict, but... the fundamentals of the game mechanics very strongly dissuade people from waging wars. 
Potential losses in war are still much greater then what players could possibly gain.

-Mostly cause civilians are open to retaliation.  Can't feasibly hide all civilian production within walls, if you've expanded your domain's production out near the borders for resources you couldn't get otherwise.  That also means war stops the economy... and many people have poor economies to begin with.
-Peasants take a long time to train up in levels.  You can't just up and replace a lvl 9 guy that gets shanked.  Plus, stats are a thing on them, which means people are even less likely to want there lvl 9 craftsman with 18 agility to get shanked.

Current change, peasants leaving is actually to 'fix' that... but... yea... not really.  It just ends up screwing people who play the 'right way' over.  The ones who do not optimize nor produce a bit of everything...

-Players should not even consider waging war till they have walls set-up to a closed off area.  But that could literally take months, depending on the player's economy and the wall plans.  Even then, not big enough to cover all the economic buildings and yea... you get the idea?

As for Knights, it is also a thing of game dev's own making, refusing to balance military/combat.  Though, recently did balance Pikemen to kinda counter Knights.  It is conditional...  It really hasn't changed much.

Oh right.... I can bet you that recent new changes are still gonna be a downer on any war happening, except for people looking to go out with a bang or troll types.  (Anyone can create multiple accounts and takeover an inactive domain.  Using that to train troops and wage war without any blowback on their main account.)

[Zazmio]

Game dev seriously wants there to be conflict, but... the fundamentals of the game mechanics very strongly dissuade people from waging wars. ...

Yeah, I agree with everything you said.  Basically, the game was unintentionally designed in a way that it ends up being boring; after the city design gets old, there's not much else except lots of micro.  It kind of feels like the game dev wanted to dissuade players from wrecking other players, causing lots of players to rage quit, but still wanted to have military units so that it's not like FarmVille.  So the military ended up very limited, which kind of leaves me with the impression that the game can't decide what kind of game it wants to be.  If that makes any sense.

[nate9090]

The combat re-balance is coming soon, although somehow I don't really think it will encourage more fighting.

I do think however that the new economic system supports it a bit more. Simply because big domains can stream in 100+ units a day to replace losses. (Before you'd get 1 or 2 units a day)

There is still a large resistance to conflict simply because unless your in a Kingdom with 24/7 over-watch you can be wiped out overnight by anyone who knows what they are doing and has a decent army/catapult force.

There has been more conflicts recently, mostly over claiming all the inactive domains. That and the NR vs Hispania fighting, I guess.

Even if making a new domain from scratch lets you be more creative... the best spots on the map are all taken pretty much. It also takes a very boring 2-4 weeks to get anywhere. Get involved with a Kingdom and you can potentially save yourself months of build up. If you really want to express yourself with a new domain... do it after you have monetary support from an older one. Much easier that way.

Roleplay is also undervalued. It can really add to the enjoyment of playing, and is easily driven by events that occur ingame.

[Fewah]

They're constantly screaming for roleplay and in-game communications... yet completely ignore the fact that every major kingdom has a Discord/Slack group and completely bypass the ingame chat mechanics.

I havent played in a couple of months, but that always drove me fuckig nuts. Should of gave people a proper Kingdom/Clan mechanics rather than the very basic vassal system that didn't work well if your vassals didnt want to join Discord/Slack.


Game had potential, but the combat system in my opinion and constant micro needs ruined it for me.

[AlStar]

I checked in on this a bit ago - apparently it'd been long enough since the last time that my characters had died due to inactivity. Alas, poor Viscount, we hardly knew thee.

My 2 main realms live on, though - looks like my liege lord (or one of his other vassals) took them over - maybe they'll finally get around to finishing the wall around my town.

[Zazmio]

The combat re-balance is coming soon, although somehow I don't really think it will encourage more fighting.

I took a look at the forum, and it looks like it might be a slight improvement, but I don't know.  Looks like he's trying to discourage hit and run using tokens or something.

I do think however that the new economic system supports it a bit more. Simply because big domains can stream in 100+ units a day to replace losses. (Before you'd get 1 or 2 units a day)

I don't know what changes to economics have taken place because I haven't played in many months.  How does this allow making 100 units a day, and is that really a good thing?  Seems like that would encourage even more knight spam.

There is still a large resistance to conflict simply because unless your in a Kingdom with 24/7 over-watch you can be wiped out overnight by anyone who knows what they are doing and has a decent army/catapult force.

Yep, and people don't want to lose many months of work on their domains.

There has been more conflicts recently, mostly over claiming all the inactive domains. That and the NR vs Hispania fighting, I guess.

I haven't been involved in the game in many months, so I don't know for sure.  However, I don't see much evidence of this looking at the forum.  It seems you had a conflict recently, but that appears to have been against someone quitting the game by suiciding against yourself and Haradren.  That's pretty much how this game rolls, in my experience:  occasional petty, meaningless conflict in between long periods of boredom.

Even if making a new domain from scratch lets you be more creative... the best spots on the map are all taken pretty much. It also takes a very boring 2-4 weeks to get anywhere. Get involved with a Kingdom and you can potentially save yourself months of build up. If you really want to express yourself with a new domain... do it after you have monetary support from an older one. Much easier that way.

Roleplay is also undervalued. It can really add to the enjoyment of playing, and is easily driven by events that occur ingame.

I might agree with that last sentence.  A game like this should be about creating entertaining stories, and good roleplay would go a long way in helping create them.  I would be willing to put up with the serious flaws in this game if there were still good stories to be had.

I think what this game really needs is a decent villain.  Maybe Hawkwood can embrace his dark side and go on a conquering spree.  He descent into darkness could be roleplayed out... perhaps he loses some close family members, loses faith in humanity, decides the world must burn.  I might even be willing to return to the game if something like this takes place.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

You can't ask a player to create the story for everyone else. Hawkwood worked very hard on his domains.

[Kot]

The Dope Pope declares all still active players heretics.

[Cheedows]

Not sure why it's Hawkwood's responsibility lol, he basically played the game constantly for months and has now rightfully won the game.

[Cruxador]

Not sure why it's Hawkwood's responsibility lol, he basically played the game constantly for months and has now rightfully won the game.

I assume it's because he's the only one who could realistically go up against everyone else at once.

But the real villain of the game is Admin.

[Zazmio]

You can't ask a player to create the story for everyone else. Hawkwood worked very hard on his domains.

I can ask, but I don't expect him to.  It's just something he might consider if he ever gets bored.

I assume it's because he's the only one who could realistically go up against everyone else at once.

Pretty much, yeah.  But it wouldn't have to be all by himself.

[Datgum]

I stopped playing in mid-April and kept telling myself I should come to this thread and spend a little time allowing my holdings to be transferred over to someone in Farra. Went to the LoL site today to see how many active players there are and decided to check to see if my chars were still alive or not. They're dead, and I was glad to see you all were able to seize control of Swill and Undermantle anyway.

I would've played this game a lot more if I was in the hardcore gaming phase of my life. It had a lot to offer but was just too much of a time and energy commitment for me to sustain it beyond the six months I gave the game. Someone mentioned their cat likes chestnuts in a Discord chat related to my professional industry just now and I thought to myself, "Remember when you used to care about picking chestnuts on a daily basis? Weird."

This will likely/hopefully be the last computer game I play seriously until I am a happily retired old man. My favorite memories are how many people showed up for the Kingdom forming party for the Little Bay and all the conversations I had with King Salvo, my unexpected new friend from Uruguay. I see he has died off too. For a game as complex and grindy as this was, it really was the human relationships that sustained one's enthusiasm.

It will be interesting to see if LoL can continue on in a healthy way. It has its merits, but gamers have a lot of choices these days and you need a critical mass of a very specific type of gamer to breath sufficient life into this one.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

It's already not in a very healthy way. The Dev has continually violated the players' trust/wishes. His PR and community management skills are not great embarrassingly bad. His vision of the game is kind of opposed to the players' ideal vision. Numbers are way down, less than half active players from when I was playing. I would expect this game to struggle on for several years before shutting down.