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[Weizen1988]

If I understand correctly, you stick them in a windowed room with a bridge to turn it on and off by blocking their view, fill the room the windows look towards with corpses and use it for live training? Is it safe to build up a second floor and surround that in fortifications? or can the undead climb out or anything like that? Would it be particularly effective to use the corpses of my own dwarves? Or are all corpses equally durable?

[PatrikLundell]

Windows or fortifications work. You need to scare the necro to get it to raise corpses (and/or parts thereof). I've had a very poor track record trying to use goblins to scare necros, while my latest attempts to station a militia dorf within view has gotten the necro to panic and raise stuff.
Undead climb about as well as whatever they were made from, I think. If you want the undead to be durable you should probably go for (blind cave) ogres, according to the principle that bigger lasts longer, but undead ogres retain the building destroying capability (allowing them to target windows...). Unless, of course, you'd like to raise FBs...

An interesting aside is that bones "naturally" butchered from undead can be used for crafting, even though "naturally" butchered bones of the corpses the undead were made of cannot. Killed undead are refuse corpses, while sapient "source" corpses are, well, corpses in terms of stockpiles.

[imperium3]

I think there needs to be an important distinction made between "necro for live training" and "necro for killing invaders." Zombie cave ogres seems like a fast way to kill whatever dwarves you send for, erm, training.

[Fleeting Frames]

Zombies can climb, but they can't go through fortifications, expect by dodging/being thrown by heavy strikes that they nonetheless survive (or don't, with the necro being available to reanimate them.).

All corpses are not equal, similarly to how creatures are not equal. Bigger things will punch harder, while ultra-tiny things like hair cannot be killed in combat. Also, you get more meat per rekilled corpse if you use bigger corpses.

For using your own dwarfs, note that being hit by that zombie will give iirc twice as bad thought as other zombies, if the one being hit knew them in life. I think they particularly dislike being hit on by their undead spouse.

[Weizen1988]

Zombies can climb, but they can't go through fortifications, expect by dodging/being thrown by heavy strikes that they nonetheless survive (or don't, with the necro being available to reanimate them.).

All corpses are not equal, similarly to how creatures are not equal. Bigger things will punch harder, while ultra-tiny things like hair cannot be killed in combat. Also, you get more meat per rekilled corpse if you use bigger corpses.

For using your own dwarfs, note that being hit by that zombie will give iirc twice as bad thought as other zombies, if the one being hit knew them in life. I think they particularly dislike being hit on by their undead spouse.

So smoothed stone topped with fortifications I wont have the undead just climbing out?

And for scaring the necromancer, I could make another window to a hallway behind his enclosure and send military dwarves by on their way to training?

[SebasMarolo]

I've read that necromancer will eventually go mad from unmet needs. Yep, they have needs. Dunno if putting masterwork statues or mist generators on their cells can mitigate that.

Try to see if the necro is carrying a slab or a book, and see if you can get a dwarf to read it. I think it will be easier to keep the needs of one of your own dwarves in check. Of course, getting him/her in a controlled combat situation may be trickier.

GCS live 20 years, right? Do zombie GCS still spew webs? I mean, eternal silk sounds like a very good use for a short lived resourse like a working necro.

[Fleeting Frames]

Aye, nothing can climb smoothed stone - sounds like you have open-air pit, though. I'd be more worried about dwarves climbing in with this case.

If you use statues instead of fortifications on higher level that undead can't walk on, your dwarves won't need to stand next to them to fire nor would be able to climb over - and may get happy thoughts admiring them. Though, any flying undead would still be able to go into the sky and land elsewhere if you stick without roof.

[Weizen1988]

I've read that necromancer will eventually go mad from unmet needs. Yep, they have needs. Dunno if putting masterwork statues or mist generators on their cells can mitigate that.

Try to see if the necro is carrying a slab or a book, and see if you can get a dwarf to read it. I think it will be easier to keep the needs of one of your own dwarves in check. Of course, getting him/her in a controlled combat situation may be trickier.

GCS live 20 years, right? Do zombie GCS still spew webs? I mean, eternal silk sounds like a very good use for a short lived resourse like a working necro.

They dont eat, sleep or drink, what needs are left? if I capture a second necromancer, will they socialize? Ill engrave the area still, I plan to engrave everything, even lava channels when possible. I could give him some statues too.

Aye, nothing can climb smoothed stone - sounds like you have open-air pit, though. I'd be more worried about dwarves climbing in with this case.

No its all underground, id take a picture but im away, only way anything is climbing in is if they can climb through fortifications. Ive got (or am planning, ive not built any of this yet, im focusing on an obsidian generator/corpse disposal right now) a 10x10 smoothed room, then a bridge to control necromancers vision, a window, a place for the necromancer behind the window, and now I guess either a passage to scare the necromancer from, or I figure sending the squad into the room will upset him so he starts raising the corpses wont it?. Floor above is a ring of fortifications, then open space looking down into the room, marksdwarves can go into the upper chamber to shoot at corpses for training, or I can send in squad of dwarves to beat up the corpses. Ill probably just use goblins and such, whatever is around, but never too many at once.

[Fleeting Frames]

Sounds pretty safe, unless your archers get stupid and creative ideas. At the very least, undead can only get out by teleporting through walls.

I think they may become haggard due confinement on chain as that gives them unhappy thoughts. I've even had cyclops stumbling around obliviously when chained. (To be fair, they got hit regularly with bolts.)

Also, FYI engraving only increases room value and changes appearance - dwarves can't really get happy thoughts from admiring them.

Otherwise, lot of things tend to become distracted due inability to pray. Livestock is pretty obvious for this...Hm. Can perhaps use this as signal that livestock is old enough to butcher, maybe.

Hm, if they see tavern socialization, that might maybe boost their mood, or just scare them further. Not sure which, and can be undesirable if anybody dies in tavern, but it's a thought.

[Weizen1988]

Sounds pretty safe, unless your archers get stupid and creative ideas. At the very least, undead can only get out by teleporting through walls.

I think they may become haggard due confinement on chain as that gives them unhappy thoughts. I've even had cyclops stumbling around obliviously when chained. (To be fair, they got hit regularly with bolts.)

Also, FYI engraving only increases room value and changes appearance - dwarves can't really get happy thoughts from admiring them.

Otherwise, lot of things tend to become distracted due inability to pray. Livestock is pretty obvious for this...Hm. Can perhaps use this as signal that livestock is old enough to butcher, maybe.

Hm, if they see tavern socialization, that might maybe boost their mood, or just scare them further. Not sure which, and can be undesirable if anybody dies in tavern, but it's a thought.

This one has a little space to run in. I may even give them statues at both ends of their enclosure, this guy has no books, but he wrote several, I was debating building a chute to drop writing materials down to them, give them a table and chair, they wouldnt use it I assume, but why not, long as the chute its smoothed too so no way they could climb it. Hmm, well im not building him his own temple to worship in, so hes just going to go crazy eventually, ill catch one of his friends when that happens.

I hadnt considered people dying in the tavern, that might end badly. Maybe just a statue garden or barracks or something, less dead things.

[Fleeting Frames]

Temples don't require buildings. paint a zone, call it temple done. I doubt the necromancer can take jobs, though, so it's a moot point - pets can't, which is why they get distracted even if their pasture is also a temple.

[Chief10]

If you use statues instead of fortifications on higher level that undead can't walk on, your dwarves won't need to stand next to them to fire nor would be able to climb over - and may get happy thoughts admiring them. Though, any flying undead would still be able to go into the sky and land elsewhere if you stick without roof.

By this did you mean that marksdwarves shoot through statue tiles but can never walk through them, not even to dodge? Because if that's the case, could I use them on my outdoor towers to replace fortifications and stop the dwarven quantum tunneling problem?

Edit:
Just saw a thread PatrickLundell started on this, dwarves can dodge through statues. I'm still curious if statues can replace fortifications though, since marksdwarves don't have to be standing next to them to fire?

[PatrikLundell]

I don't think you should let the civvies see the necro at all, as I think it's considered an undead, with the attendant result of civvies running screaming from the premises (unless you want to reserve the tavern for militia and vampires).

[Fleeting Frames]

Nothing can walk on statues (leaving me to use them with trench right before in fluid tunnels open to outside), but you'll find dwarves can dodge through anything if attacked enough - yes, even 3 thick wall into magma. Albeit with statues there is the added possibility of dodging into statue tile and then stepping out on the wrong side. The undead shouldn't be attacking back, though, so that shouldn't be a concern.

For outdoor towers, preventing backfire from low-skill enemy archers is one of the advantages of using fortifications. To prevent climbing through, perhaps combine the two? Statues can hang in mid-air to boot. I recall one idea posited elsewhere that longer walkable path will also prevent climbing through fortifications, but I have not tested this hypothesis - may also cause it, no idea, not everyone experiences it I think.

[Werdna]

I think that invader pathing varies depending on "Is hostile in sight?" so it is true that invaders will ignore a climb-through-fortification path if a normal path exists to get to the dwarves & co.  However, if there are marksmen visible in the fortifications, I think this is where the pathfinding may shift to more creative jumping/climbing possibilities if they are there.