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Author Topic: Caravan weirdness  (Read 1018 times)

muldrake

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Caravan weirdness
« on: December 14, 2016, 12:26:09 am »

This is 0.43.03 for OS X.  I am using dfhack but only for some of the fairly generic things like seedwatch, discarding old clothes, removing contaminants, etc.

I started on a 2x2 embark in a very small world with a very short history (5 years), partly to slow the inevitable descent into FPS hell that seemed to have been killing all my fortresses within a few years.

I had four adjoining civilizations, humans, elves, goblins, and the Mountainhome.  In the first year, I got the usual dwarf caravan and things were fine.  In the second year, I got visits from all four civilizations, caravans from all of them except, of course, the goblins who brought gifts of goblinite.  In the third year, the same.

At the end of the third year, the outpost liaison and caravan arrived, and I had somehow qualified as a barony and appointed the just-elected mayor as baron.  I also started moving goods to the Trade Depot, which was accessible and apparently functioning.

However, the caravan never arrived.  Nor did anyone appear in the Units menu (other than the liaison).  Nor did any migrants, even though they had been arriving every previous season since shortly after embark.

Then, in spring of the next year, the elven diplomat showed up, and supposedly a caravan.  But no units appeared, and the caravan never showed up, although I was able to move trade goods fruitlessly to the depot.

And in summer, the human law-giver showed up, and told me in a dialogue that everything was totally normal.  But no caravan showed up at all.

And the dwarves sent absolutely nobody.

Also the goblins stopped showing up.  And any migrants.

And even though I have two taverns with generously furnished attached rooms and a tavern keeper, and gold statues in it, and smoothed and engraved floors and walls, and about 100000 worth of stationary instruments, I never got more than about two or three guests, none of whom petitioned for citizenship or to rent a room.

The Civilizations menu looks normal for Elves and Dwarves, with my mayor/baron listed as one of two baronies.  So far as I can tell, those two civilizations are healthy.

The humans, though, list nobody but the human law-giver who showed up, and the goblins similarly have only one, a "master/Mole Fiend Administrator."  While I don't have any idea what a "Mole Fiend Administrator" is or does, that's what he's called.

So I think it's possible those two civilizations have gone extinct (I suppose it's possible I actually had something to do with the goblin civilization dying out), but the Elves and Dwarves seem fine and aren't sending anyone.

Any idea what's up here?

I've had migrants stop showing up before, and been able to have a stable population from guests showing up individually and petitioning, but with neither, I'm likely to get whittled away until some colossus or something shows up to finish me off.
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Thisfox

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Re: Caravan weirdness
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2016, 12:32:56 am »

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muldrake

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Re: Caravan weirdness
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2016, 12:40:09 am »

This might be relevant.

I'd actually seen that, but I don't have the stocks issue mentioned in that and other bug reports, including this one:  http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=9593

(Also I've gone so long in this fortress since then and messed it up so much already including accidentally flooding much of it that I may just move on.)

I may give it a shot anyway, but the fix seems rather ornate.  I'll certainly try that if it happens again, but immediately afterwards and not years later.

ETA:  The human law-giver showed up again, along with two friendlies. 

I got the diplomatic dialogue and he informed me that he had replaced the previous law-giver (and did not explain exactly what happened to the old one).  Also the goblins have invaded and conquered some other civilization I'd never heard of before.

The friendlies were listed as friendly on the units menu.

Then the human caravan showed up.

I zoomed to one of the merchants, and followed, waited for them to come in and started moving goods to the depot.

During a second of inattention, the wagons and merchants all just freaking DISAPPEARED.  All that was left was two yak bulls, one of them "Overcome by Terror."

Even more weirdly, the human guests, who never generated the visitor announcement, are now listed as "Merchant" in the Units menu despite previously just being listed as "Friendly" or something similar.

ETA:  The Yak Bull had apparently been in combat with a Wild Boar and they both ended up "Overcome by Terror" and fled from each other.  Could this have disrupted the caravan by itself? 

ETA:  Also, although I got the menu option to bring goods to the Depot and chose some, including some no more than 2 squares away, the option is no longer available and no items were taken to the Depot, which remains empty despite light, portable items being right next to it.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2016, 02:41:11 pm by muldrake »
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oldmansutton

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Re: Caravan weirdness
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2016, 04:11:06 pm »

From what I've noticed, anytime ANY member of a caravan gets the least bit scared, they all run away.  Sometimes this leaves a bunch of supplies for you to reclaim, but I'm at a point where I'm more interested in EXPORTING excess goods, and them all running away anytime somebody sneezes is getting old.  Maybe I'm wrong, but this is what I've noticed across 4 different forts now in 43.03 and 43.05.
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I suggest using kilokittens. As cats are 10X the volume of kittens. That way, 50 cats would be .5 kilokittens.

100 cats would be 1 kilokitten.

muldrake

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Re: Caravan weirdness
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2016, 04:17:19 pm »

From what I've noticed, anytime ANY member of a caravan gets the least bit scared, they all run away.  Sometimes this leaves a bunch of supplies for you to reclaim, but I'm at a point where I'm more interested in EXPORTING excess goods, and them all running away anytime somebody sneezes is getting old.  Maybe I'm wrong, but this is what I've noticed across 4 different forts now in 43.03 and 43.05.

I've had this happen before where they drop everything on the ground and run, but this time, they didn't drop anything at all.  And then two "Friendly" visitors suddenly turned to "Merchant" but aren't selling anything.  I'm killing and butchering all those miserable wild boars, though.

One of the weirder things I had (not in this game) was a caravan that showed up, got to the Trade Depot, and then the wagons spontaneously deconstructed themselves (leaving behind "wagon wood" which is how I knew that) and the merchants disappeared leaving everything right at the Trade Depot for free.  I have no idea what that was.
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oldmansutton

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Re: Caravan weirdness
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2016, 04:38:22 pm »

I've had this happen before where they drop everything on the ground and run, but this time, they didn't drop anything at all.  And then two "Friendly" visitors suddenly turned to "Merchant" but aren't selling anything.  I'm killing and butchering all those miserable wild boars, though.

One of the weirder things I had (not in this game) was a caravan that showed up, got to the Trade Depot, and then the wagons spontaneously deconstructed themselves (leaving behind "wagon wood" which is how I knew that) and the merchants disappeared leaving everything right at the Trade Depot for free.  I have no idea what that was.

I think when the wagons "flee", they do that.  I'm not for sure though.  I had a caravan with 8 wagons coming in, 7 got into the depot, something happened with the 8th (or the mules), and then they were leaving, and then just vanished.  I really don't know what this is, except for bloody inconvenient.  Everytime I've had the caravan flee, the wagons have vanished (or deconstructed).
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I suggest using kilokittens. As cats are 10X the volume of kittens. That way, 50 cats would be .5 kilokittens.

100 cats would be 1 kilokitten.

Fleeting Frames

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Re: Caravan weirdness
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2016, 06:09:48 pm »

Maybe the wagons saw a pool of blood from one of your dwarves? Or perhaps some punched-out tooth.

muldrake

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Re: Caravan weirdness
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2016, 09:34:35 pm »

Maybe the wagons saw a pool of blood from one of your dwarves? Or perhaps some punched-out tooth.

They would have seen something like a few dozen goblin corpses ranging from skeletonized remnants to ripe, rotten carcasses pretty much anywhere on the route in.

The only actual combat that occurred was between one of their animals and a wild animal, though.
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Pirate Santa

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Re: Caravan weirdness
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2016, 02:05:14 am »

Something different but still weird.

"The fisherdwarf Urist McLiasion has arrived"
"A caravan from the mountainhome has arrived"
"Urist McCaravan Guard has gone berserk!"

Zoom to area and there is no sign of anyone but the liasion and a neat pile of forbidden trade goods occupying one tile a good 10-15 tiles in from the border.
I appreciate the freebies but what??
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Re: Caravan weirdness
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2016, 08:29:09 am »

@muldrake: Yeah, I think those would make them get scared and flee. Dwarves, too, sometimes experience emotional shock when seeing corpses (I once put refuse/corpse QSP into the central stairway, then installed baby-smoothie spikes in meeting zones), but wagons have more sensitive feelings.