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Author Topic: Interest Check: Interstellar Competition  (Read 842 times)

Chiefwaffles

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Interest Check: Interstellar Competition
« on: December 10, 2016, 09:35:00 pm »

This is, as you have surely cunningly guessed from the title, an interest check for a multiplayer Space Program management FG thing. And before I start, a disclaimer:
I do not have a good track record with games that track multiple independent people. There's a good chance I'll be immediately in over my head, but experience is the best solution for these kinds of things, after all.

Anyways, Interstellar Competition: (title subject to change)
The essential idea is 3-5 players manage their own space program starting in a fictional modern day society. Players research, design, build, and launch rockets/ships on various missions. Funding is merit-based, where players have to complete milestones for money or find their own ways of securing income. Players all exist in the same world of course, but compete to complete missions and milestones first. Players have to manage the required crew and research alternatives (disclaimer: no remote-controlling though) if wanted.
The milestones and missions will get more and more demanding as the game goes on, as well.

EDIT: To clarify, the scope definitely expands beyond the solar system.

Any kind of feedback or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. People wanting to show their interest/reserve spots on the potential actual game are fine, but if you do want to reserve a spot or anything, keep in mind that this isn't a definite thing and that your 'reservation' won't apply if you wait too long to reply in the actual thread.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2016, 01:11:09 am by Chiefwaffles »
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

RoseHeart

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Re: Interest Check: Interstellar Competition
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2016, 10:24:13 pm »

I look forward to the sequal.
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Interest Check: Interstellar Competition
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2016, 12:16:42 am »

..sequel? Sorry?
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

RoseHeart

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Re: Interest Check: Interstellar Competition
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2016, 12:45:20 am »

..sequel? Sorry?

The one after the space program where it's spaceships in space.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2016, 11:43:31 am by roseheart »
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10ebbor10

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Re: Interest Check: Interstellar Competition
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2016, 02:19:23 am »

Seems interesting
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TopHat

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Re: Interest Check: Interstellar Competition
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2016, 05:09:55 pm »

I'm also interested. Not much in feedback at this point, other than to ask for clarification regarding what "no remote controlling" refers to. Will all missions be manned, then?
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Interest Check: Interstellar Competition
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2016, 05:13:39 pm »

Essentially, yes. But that's something I'm still relatively undecided at this point. The problem with probe-type ships is having enough limitations with them without putting too much of a strain on the GM and have a specific place for them in the FG matching the limitations.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

Kashyyk

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Re: Interest Check: Interstellar Competition
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2016, 05:41:49 pm »

A few gameplay questions:
Is it only the first player to reach the milestone that gets paid? If so, what happens if they hit the first few milestones, leaving them with more funding than their competitors and a target noone else can reach?
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Interest Check: Interstellar Competition
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2016, 06:33:55 pm »

Milestones are more of a side goal than the main moneymaker. So ideally the milestones like "Orbit ________ first!" would promote competition to be the first one to make it for the extra money. But if you don't make a milestone, you won't be significantly harmed. The main sources of income would be the missions as well as independent money-making (which should hopefully be obvious once the game exists).

And as for missions, I still do want to encourage a sense of competition with them while remaining a reliable source of income. So at the moment I'm leaning towards having a large amount of missions with a couple more lucrative than the others. So once again it'd be more of a side incentive - if you can do it first you'll make a bit of extra cash, but nothing too significant. Ideally the rewards for these types of missions and milestones would be nice to have for the players, but not enough to catapult a given player ahead to the point where they can easily beat all the others.
It'd be more like "Sweet! I got this extra $10,000 so now I can put a bit more money towards increasing the fuel efficiency on my Horizon V3 Rocket!", not "With this $100 million I got from that milestone, I shall instantly complete my plasmaionmagneticfusion drive years before everyone else!"

It still needs a bit more direct thought (like many other mechanics) before the game's actually ready, but the principle seems fine.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

RoseHeart

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Re: Interest Check: Interstellar Competition
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2016, 06:40:59 pm »

$100 million plasmaionmagneticfusion drive? Sounds like a bargain.

Edit: I think you have three willing players if you want to do some test gameplay Waffle.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2016, 06:42:59 pm by roseheart »
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RulerOfNothing

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Re: Interest Check: Interstellar Competition
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2016, 08:37:26 pm »

I'm also interested.
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S34N1C

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Re: Interest Check: Interstellar Competition
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2016, 09:27:34 am »

this sounds like something i would try to play and fail miserably. interested, but not sure if i will play
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Interest Check: Interstellar Competition
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2016, 12:57:53 am »

So to give an update on mechanics work, I was surprised by the fact that I actually have to do a tiny bit of a physics to do this. And as it turns out, I'm quite bad with this type of physics. The problem is keeping the mechanics somewhat grounded in reality while still being based around gameplay.

Warning, people who appreciate physics: Do not look below!

So as it stands, a thruster is rated in Thrust, which is essentially force * time. The idea is somewhat rooted in actual real-world stuff but really it's abstracted to the point where the actual math would not really translate properly into real life, which is fine, since this is a game and not a secret NASA program to outsource rocket design.

Anyways. Thrusters are actually measured in total thrust (and a set fuel usage), which is more or less a measure of how much overall force you're going to get over an abstract period of time. A rocket's overall "raw" (not factoring in weight) lifting capability is determined by the rating for its thrusters and the amount of fuel it has.
But effective thrust (also known as change in velocity) is determined by thrust/mass. And effective thrust, measured per stage of a rocket then added together, is the unit of measurement used to actually determine the effectiveness of a ship.

You may now continue reading.

So essentially: Your thrusters provide a certain amount of thrust and take a certain amount of fuel, and depending on the mass of your stages, your amount of fuel, and your overall thrust/fuel, your ship will have a different effective thrust which is essentially the rating of how far a ship can go.

This may be too mechanics-based and that'll be determined in the pseudo-test-run.

And now for the final attraction: Rocket design! I shall be showcasing the Rokyos Rocket. Name awful as all my names are. Extremely subject to change.

The Rokyos rocket is a 3-stage starter rocket and has its advantage in its effective thrust. In exchange for being able to go further, you'll sacrifice reusability and general cost, but hey, you can go further!
The Rokyos design incorporates 2 types of stages - The final stage and the first 2 stages. I'll lay it out in a more "visible" format. Stages go from bottom to top, so the first stage listed is the first stage used, and the last stage listed is the final stage.
Remember: Stages are meant to be more of a crutch in the early-game.

Stage 1 & 2 - Ascent
The first two stages use the Internals Hull (name pending, as always). The Internal Hull has 1 Rear Slot, 2 Internal Slots, and 0 Front slots. Some hulls can have multiple rear slots, multiple front slots, and special characteristics, but the internals hull is fairly dry. The Internals Hull also has 0 reliability, meaning it's not any more or less likely to suffer a failure during flight.
The Ascent stages use 2 fuel tanks and a single thruster for lifting. Each fuel tank provides 10 units of fuel and the single chemical thruster provides 2,000 thrust for 20 fuel units. Meaning each stage has a raw thrust of 2,000 th.

Stage 3 - Orbiter
The orbiter stage uses the Expanded Hull - a bigger hull that has more mass and is slightly less reliable (though it only has a miniscule impact on the chance of failures), but it has 4 slots total! A single front slot, two internal slots, and a back slot. The front slot is filled by a 4-crew Rokyos cockpit. The 4 crew aboard can manage 4 components at a time, and since the biggest stage is only 4 components, this ship is covered crew-wise. In the first internal slot you have life support which is required for holding crew Supplies and keeping up to 4 crew alive with 30u of supplies. The last two slots - an internal and rear slot - are occupied by the fuel tank and thruster for some additional propulsion.
So the raw thrust of this stage is 1,000th, since we only have 10u of fuel.

After calculating the effective thrust for each stage (determined by the thrust of a stage divided by the mass of the stage and every stage above it), we determine that the Rokyos Rocket has an effective thrust of 2.803. But you have to rebuild the two ascent stages every time you want to launch this rocket, as you can only recover the Orbiter stage and not the Ascent ones.


So the units still don't mean much at this point, but they're there. The design and math will hopefully not be needed by the players - you should be able to use common sense to design a ship and it should fly how you expect it to based on logic. Feedback would be extremely appreciated.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

RoseHeart

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Re: Interest Check: Interstellar Competition
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2016, 01:15:52 am »

I'm a little intimidated by the slots. So long as there is kind of standard models to fall back on if things get a little heavy and some basic decisions that can be made. Can I paint mine red to go faster?

Edit: bonus feedback: a visualization might help of the rockets. Whether via ASCII or doodles. (I may be able to help with that, if needed)
Spoiler: Portfolio (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: December 13, 2016, 01:28:56 am by roseheart »
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RulerOfNothing

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Re: Interest Check: Interstellar Competition
« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2016, 01:24:43 am »

OK, I have a question: When you say that effective thrust is a measurement of the effectiveness of a ship, are we talking about absolute thresholds, a linear relationship (ie double the effective thrust, double the effectiveness) or something completely different?
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