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[Taffer]

Still working on this, I'm just taking my time.

None of it is committed yet—I'm using git wrong—but I thought I'd post the changelog as it stands so far. The first point is actually a lie since I've not sorted out the dictionaries yet. Not sure whether I'll keep the expanded dictionary or whether I'll use dflangopt to make optimized dictionaries instead.

Most of this is actually reverting changes. Do speak up though if you disagree with anything: I feed on critique. I'm known for getting a bit carried away with the delete key. There are a few additional fixes and a feature or two I'm looking into, so it won't be all bad.

Gathering evidence alone for some of the fixes will delay the release further. I might put out an interim release before I start getting into testing what's left.

* updated to v0.47.04 with all appropriate raw changes.
* reverted (most) names back to vanilla. This also reverted all changed creature letters back to their expected letters.
* removed all added discipline and a lot of added NOFEAR. 7161 indicates that this is either resolved or a problem in the other direction. This was also a very noisy fix.
* minotaurs, yetis, stranglers, blind cave ogres, ogres, cyclops, sasquatches, and blind cave bears no longer guzzle alcohol, just like vanilla.
* cap hoppers and bugbats no longer steal food, just like vanilla. Crundles still will. weasels no longer steal things.
* removed gut thread and tannable intestines.
* humans are no longer ambushers.
* goblins and subterranean creatures have KILL_NEUTRAL:REQUIRED again.
* removed ALL_MAIN_POPS_CONTROLLABLE from goblins, just like vanilla. You're likely to start in a dark tower anyways, which will be unplayable.
* ostrich feather description reverted to vanilla because I misread it last time.
* the new mount control AI made its way into fort mode, so I've reverted the amphibious mount fix. I also allowed slow mounts and mounts that curl up when threatened again. You do you, goblins.
* aquatic humanoids are aquatic again. Mermaids are still amphibious.
* cave fish people are amphibious again, like vanilla. No idea why I ever deleted this, looks like an accident.
* hippos and orcas are benign again. Unexpected behaviour deviation from vanilla and I'm not attached to either creature enough to justify the change.
* hippo bites now gore instead, like vanilla. Good thing they're gentle, benign beasts.
* removed redundant mandrill stealing tags.
* gremlins appear rarely again, like vanilla.
* dragons feel pain again, like vanilla.
* aardvaarks no longer hunt vermin. [1]
* animal people are capable of being NOTHOUGHT again, just like vanilla. Can't find an actual bug report on this or discussion on why I and (I think) the Modest Mod were removing the tag. If it's just flavor, it doesn't follow (to me) that all animal people should be able to think.
* four vermin tags that were added to the animal people variations (as remove_tag, to get rid of them) now aren't being removed anymore, just like vanilla. [2]
* removed REMOVE_TAG:SPECIFIC_FOOD (that I added) from the legless animal people variation, since there are no such animal people by default. The wiki reports that panda people can get along just fine in vanilla so I might remove this entirely. [3]
* removed REMOVE_TAG:COOKABLE_LIVE, REMOVE_TAG:GRAZER, and REMOVE_TAG:STANDARD_GRAZER tags (that I added) from the legless animal people variation, since there are no such animal people by default.
* gendered child and baby names are removed from humanoids. They weren't applying to animal people (inconsistent) and it was a noisy fix already. I didn't want to add hundreds of new lines to the animal people just to rename children and infants, so I opted to remove the whole thing.
* I decided to replace lengthy commented out sections with a single comment in an effort to reduce the file size of the RAWs ever so slightly.

[1]: There's quite a few new 'eats vermin' and 'is a vermin that gets eaten' tags that Warlord255 brought to the party. I like the flavor but want to see if it comes out in-game before deciding whether I'll be keeping it.
[2]: No sign of any actual bug reports as a result of these tags. This is frustratingly common for mod fixes I've accumulated: no bug report, little or no forum discussion..just raw fixes that somebody said were needed once.
[3]: There are a few reports that humanoid grazers have difficulty eating (not in the bug tracker though) so I want to test things for myself and put in a bug report if it's needed. It sounded kind of like people were digging deep fortresses and forbidding people from leaving; it makes sense to me that humanoid grazers would die in those conditions. That's on the player. If there's parts of the fortress with grass that they can access and they're not grazing on their own though, then that's different. Going to try testing this and panda people but it'll take a bit to just get a vanilla fort going with the relevant humanoids in it.

[Taffer]

I added a poll. I'll be trying to put out a release in the next few days and then I'll move on to testing some of the things that need testing. The poll will run until that second release comes out.

Hope you get back to it soon, enjoyed this mod the most!

Thank you. I'm working on it! I'm taking my time getting a hopefully stable release out, and then it should remain fairly stable for a long time going forward.

[Splint]

I'm in favor personally. Been using that old furrier mod for ages cause I liked using it to decorate armor (to achieve the wolf-head hood effect instead of using easily destroyed cloaks and hood items)

[Taffer]

I've mostly finished the next big version. Things should be fairly stable for a while after that. The poll seems to be tilting pretty clearly in favor of keeping the renamed leather so I've already fixed animal person leather missing the "hide" noun issue and, while I was at it, I also brought back scale leather throughout. Both were done with as few raw changes as possible.

The changes to humanoids stealing things doesn't appear to be in the current version of Revised? I don't know, but that's one less thing to test.

There's still a to-do list for the next version. Not exhaustive and in no particular order:

 • finally sort out the plant files. I feel like Button did a lot of wonderful work in there that I've never taken the time to properly understand or appreciate. I want to either understand or revert it all.
 • talk to Sver about all the lingering combat-affecting changes and sort it all out. Revised still contains quite a few things from DF Combat Reworked, now's the time to sort out why I'm doing it and if it's still worth it without the rest of that mod. I'm thinking things like toughened sinew, skin, wood, leather, silk, chitin, etc...I'm also re-thinking the Coherent Weapons changes I'm currently making to the weapon files.
 • sort out elves. Tough or vanilla.

[Proudbucket]

This looks quite cool. I'll try the mod.
One thing to mention is that it is not entirely clear which changes the mod includes as some of the changes stated in the first post (e.g. aquatic mounts, tannable intestines) were reverted. Can you edit the first post or put an updated list of what this mod includes?

[Taffer]

This looks quite cool. I'll try the mod.
One thing to mention is that it is not entirely clear which changes the mod includes as some of the changes stated in the first post (e.g. aquatic mounts, tannable intestines) were reverted. Can you edit the first post or put an updated list of what this mod includes?

Thank you! The current released version is still for v0.44.12 and the description is accurate for it. The changelog posed above is for my WIP new release, which I really should finish. The delay is a combination of real-life factors and me not knowing exactly what I want to do with the list in the post just above yours.

I'll see if I can push myself to polish up the next release and get it out.

[Iä! RIAKTOR!]

I've mostly finished the next big version. Things should be fairly stable for a while after that. The poll seems to be tilting pretty clearly in favor of keeping the renamed leather so I've already fixed animal person leather missing the "hide" noun issue and, while I was at it, I also brought back scale leather throughout. Both were done with as few raw changes as possible.

The changes to humanoids stealing things doesn't appear to be in the current version of Revised? I don't know, but that's one less thing to test.

There's still a to-do list for the next version. Not exhaustive and in no particular order:

 • finally sort out the plant files. I feel like Button did a lot of wonderful work in there that I've never taken the time to properly understand or appreciate. I want to either understand or revert it all.
 • talk to Sver about all the lingering combat-affecting changes and sort it all out. Revised still contains quite a few things from DF Combat Reworked, now's the time to sort out why I'm doing it and if it's still worth it without the rest of that mod. I'm thinking things like toughened sinew, skin, wood, leather, silk, chitin, etc...I'm also re-thinking the Coherent Weapons changes I'm currently making to the weapon files.
 • sort out elves. Tough or vanilla.

Human hide? You may use words "anthropoderma" (straight, but sounds very bad), "nabrock" (sounds better) or "scalp" (sounds the best, but IRL has a little different use). Goblin wear +elf scalp bracelet+ will be incredible!

[Taffer]

Human hide? You may use words "anthropoderma" (straight, but sounds very bad), "nabrock" (sounds better) or "scalp" (sounds the best, but IRL has a little different use). Goblin wear +elf scalp bracelet+ will be incredible!

Good suggestions! Unfortunately both 'anthropoderma' and 'nabrock/nabrok' are too esoteric for my tastes, and 'scalp' sounds like the item's literally just made of head/face skin, which isn't true.

[Iä! RIAKTOR!]

Human hide? You may use words "anthropoderma" (straight, but sounds very bad), "nabrock" (sounds better) or "scalp" (sounds the best, but IRL has a little different use). Goblin wear +elf scalp bracelet+ will be incredible!

Good suggestions! Unfortunately both 'anthropoderma' and 'nabrock/nabrok' are too esoteric for my tastes, and 'scalp' sounds like the item's literally just made of head/face skin, which isn't true.

For small items like jewelry "scalp" sounds very good, when trophies are not big items (like coat of human "scalp"). But, as I know, trophies are only jewelry and non-trophies prevented by INTELLIGENT tag. 

[Senescent]

Hello again! I just commented on your tileset thread earlier today. As I mentioned there, I've recently started playing again and I'm in the process of getting everything set up how I used to have it. I was reading descriptions in-game earlier and realized that I was missing this mod. To my surprise, I just discovered you were the creator of this.

I just wanted to let you know that I'm really looking forward to your new v0.47 update. In my opinion, this mod is essential and makes the game so much more pleasant to read. I really wish Toady would just integrate these changes into the vanilla game.

[Taffer]

Hello again! I just commented on your tileset thread earlier today. As I mentioned there, I've recently started playing again and I'm in the process of getting everything set up how I used to have it. I was reading descriptions in-game earlier and realized that I was missing this mod. To my surprise, I just discovered you were the creator of this.

I just wanted to let you know that I'm really looking forward to your new v0.47 update. In my opinion, this mod is essential and makes the game so much more pleasant to read. I really wish Toady would just integrate these changes into the vanilla game.

Thank you! I'll try to get it done soon. I actually offered the changes to Toady already: in fact, I had the other contributor to the descriptions agree to release the work into the public domain just in case Toady took me up on it. Unfortunately he didn't want any outside creative contributions, so I think the vanilla descriptions will probably remain as they are for a very long time. I can attest that it was an enormous amount of work to add more to the descriptions for everything and edit and re-edit it all for quality.

Of course, Toady said he didn't want any outside creative contributions then announced the Steam release a year later (featuring outside creative contributions), so what do I know.

[Taffer]

Just wanted to post a quick status update. I've been rather busy IRL (Coronavirus has only decreased my free time, not increased it) but it's now pretty clear to me that I've lost most of my interest in DF and Revised, but I've not had the heart to just abandon it all again.

To avoid more future delays and potential problems I've decided to revert the parts of Revised that I'm personally just not that attached to. I've already made good progress and I genuinely expect an update in the next few days. Any unexpected significant blockers will probably also just get quickly reverted back to vanilla. I'll focus on what I'm good at.

• I've already reverted elves to vanilla.
• I've already gone through the material template file with a massive banhammer. I quite like Sver's work but there's some pretty significant differences between Revised and DF Combat Reworked already and I don't want to try to support these changes (balance-wise) independently.
• The banhammer will fall next on the plant files. I'm a little obsessive about Revised (if it wasn't obvious already) and I'm not confident I can give the plant files the attention they need going forward. Every creator has different interests, and while Button seemed to quite like modding plants I've never had any interest in it. As with the material template file I won't revert everything blindly, just the non-obvious changes.

After this I can consider Revised 'finished' and focus just on updates and bug-fixing going forward.

Before anyone panics, I do expect the vast majority of Revised to escape unscathed. I'm just focusing on getting rid of the parts that have consistently prevented me from releasing updates.

[Taffer]

As promised, have an update! Without the thornier areas of Revised I expect to be able to get new releases out quicker.

The changelog is more or less what's in this post and this post. If you're comfortable reading git diffs then you can see everything in this one mammoth commit. There's also these changes:

* minor fix to foul blendec definitions; didn't need to comment out the original CASTE_NAME and add it twice, just retain the original.
* animal person leather is always called hide.
* scaly creatures over size 10,000 now yield leather, and it's called scale. This won't apply to randomly generated creatures.
updated to expanded dictionary 0.7.
* I was removing MAXAGE in giant variations before applying a new one to avoid bug 6393: I'm not doing so anymore because MAXAGE isn't, in fact, being edited in the creature variation file.
* sea lamprey tail slap attacks are now MAIN again, not SECONDARY.
* raccoons only steal food now, not also items
* elephant and rhino kicks are now main again, not secondary
* rhino man gore attacks are now MAIN again, not SECONDARY
* touched up a few descriptions

If I reverted something you care about, please let me know and make your case. If there's DF bugs I can easily fix without much effort, I'm happy to hear about them.

[Darkond2100]

Thank you for all your hard work Taffer.

[Taffer]

Anyone that's followed Revised for a while will probably know that I'm a little obsessive about consistency. I want to revisit the "weak elf problem" and I can't help but notice that pretty much all animal people in Revised have NATURAL_SKILL, amplifying the below problem. I'll probably change all of that to SKILL_LEARN_RATE tokens instead as Sver suggested and add some for elves, because then I can avoid the adventure mode inconsistency. It's unfortunate that this bug still hasn't been fixed, despite Toady making significant changes to character creation recently. Oh well.

I'll also be comparing Revised again to LargeSnail's updated Modest Mod. I've definitely been too harsh at times on some minor fixes so this is a good way to go all the way back and compare against what I started with.

Otherwise, I'm thinking about bringing in some of Modest Bodies now that I'm looking at it again. For reasons I explain here there's a reason I didn't use it, but maybe I could bring in things like renaming upper legs to thighs and lower arms to forearms. You tell me if it would bother you to have "lower legs" and "thighs" instead of "lower legs" and "upper legs". I remember reverting some things in body_default to keep things closer to vanilla, but with the new internal limb changes the file's already a nightmare to compare against, so there's little point in holding back in that file.

The problem with Natural_Skill, is that it doesn't work on Adventurers due to a bug. That leaves you having to roleplay as the one Elf who can't shoot and dodge like the others. Kind of annoying (I ignore it and grit my teeth with my personal mod because it is a lot of fun in Fortress, but then, I don't share my mod with hundreds of Adventurer loving fans).

http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=9280

It can be worked around somewhat, by using the SKILL_LEARN_RATE token instead. As far as I could observe, it works on adventurers.