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[Sver]

A small suggestion regarding the removal of amphibious mounts: maybe make them all war trainable instead? I mean, the bug fix is perfectly reasonable, but I feel like there is a chunk of fun missing from the fact that certain water-crossing creatures won't appear in sieges anymore.

[Taffer]

A small suggestion regarding the removal of amphibious mounts: maybe make them all war trainable instead? I mean, the bug fix is perfectly reasonable, but I feel like there is a chunk of fun missing from the fact that certain water-crossing creatures won't appear in sieges anymore.

I'll make it so. Thank you for the suggestion!

[flyteofheart]

Iv had success merging this with other mods that dont alter vanilla much. Its a fantastic experiance so far. The richer descriptions make things better than i thought they would. Cant wait until the better merge with svers is done. i tried doing that myself but it came out eh.

[Sver]

Iv had success merging this with other mods that dont alter vanilla much. Its a fantastic experiance so far. The richer descriptions make things better than i thought they would. Cant wait until the better merge with svers is done. i tried doing that myself but it came out eh.

May I ask what exactly went wrong?

[Taffer]

Iv had success merging this with other mods that dont alter vanilla much. Its a fantastic experiance so far. The richer descriptions make things better than i thought they would. Cant wait until the better merge with svers is done. i tried doing that myself but it came out eh.

As Sver said, what went wrong?

Would you kindly visit the repository and download the master edition? I haven't tested it for errors, but there shouldn't be any unless I missed something. Let me know how it works. The descriptions are all getting an overhaul, so you'll also get a few textual improvements.

Best to try on a new game, but I always say that.

It's Revised, with Sver's material and tissue fixes, plus some of Grimlocke's; stronger joints, and ribs protect more area (a pleasant change especially, given Sver's weaker organs). No changed items yet. There's still more on my todo list before release, but a bit of testing would be nice.

[flyteofheart]

I worded my last comment poorly.

I downloaded before may 23rd when you posted you had not integrated at all and I hadnt seen an update since then on the thread. So i just unzipped svers onto your mod. It meant it overwrote some files so I just pasted what looked obvious back into it. I meant I was just waiting until the actual merge so I dont lose any features when I put them together. If you arent ever going to fully merge them so its compatible even with the new items, then I apologize for the confusion. I guess I can actually winmerge them every time.  thats what I meant by ehhh- i hate doing that for mods(but i will anyway when i love the mods) and I did it really low effort visual scan for this time...

I also put this with a mod that adds new civs and gave them some of the new items myself. That part has been fantastic as well.

As far as more help testing, I can perhaps later this week. I live in Africa right now and I can charge my laptop only rarely by paying someone when they turn the generator on in town. It lasts a long time when I do charge, but its currently dead rip. Another 2 weeks before I can buy a new solar panel.

 It actually does seem balanced though to me. Not incredibly more difficult but noticable. and it feels more fair as well to the player even if slightly harder. Usually I play highly modded games.to give myself a challenge but I can dial that back a ton with these balance changes. Its more actually challenging not just "heres an enemy 2x as fast  and 3x as big as goblins". Iv been playing with these 2 mods together for maybe 20 hours total? Mostly fort mode.

[Sver]

I downloaded before may 23rd when you posted you had not integrated at all and I hadnt seen an update since then on the thread. So i just unzipped svers onto your mod. It meant it overwrote some files so I just pasted what looked obvious back into it. I meant I was just waiting until the actual merge so I dont lose any features when I put them together. If you arent ever going to fully merge them so its compatible even with the new items, then I apologize for the confusion. I guess I can actually winmerge them every time.  thats what I meant by ehhh- i hate doing that for mods(but i will anyway when i love the mods) and I did it really low effort visual scan for this time...

Currently, my mod incorporates all of the Revised features from the files that overlap. They are fully compatible, as long as you install my mod after Revised and simply overwrite everything.

[flyteofheart]

ok sorry. im not a mod expert. i just pasted files over, skimmed through them and pasted some more things. i dont even remember which files i put in first. and in addition another persons mods. its not anywhere obvious to me that its already finished. my first comment was very throwaway and an attempt at praise and hoping these 2 mods would be easily merged for maximum low effort

[Sver]

ok sorry. im not a mod expert. i just pasted files over, skimmed through them and pasted some more things. i dont even remember which files i put in first. and in addition another persons mods. its not anywhere obvious to me that its already finished. my first comment was very throwaway and an attempt at praise and hoping these 2 mods would be easily merged for maximum low effort

Don't worry, your comment was fine
I was just genuinely curious what problem could it be.

[flyteofheart]

Okie. I got to wifi finally! I am downloading the master now. Cant wait to test, every change youve made so far im happy with. Going to adventure, which I havnt done with this mod yet at all. I consider myself fairly competent at the game so hopefully I can notice a new change. I prefer to play as animal men of random kinds these days if you have no requests. So im curious how very large and very small creatures combat is changed if at all.

I use really expensive data on my phone (with disabled images and such to save data and only load text) to browse the net when im at home so I only update stuff when I go to the city. In only 1 more week il have a solar panel I can charge my laptop off of every day at least and can play more! Dwarf Fortress and mods is a really ideal game for me.

[Thundercraft]

In the off-chance somebody's paying attention, what do people think about more generic animal names? Deon's "Essential DF" did something similar. I'm not interested in standardizing materials, but simplifying some of the names would make many leather products less ridiculous sounding. There's no reason why somebody in-universe would name storks "white storks", rather than just "storks", given that there's only one kind of them.

For example:
  • red-winged blackbirds would become blackbirds
  • white storks would become storks
  • grey parrots would become parrots (or at least gray parrots)
  • brown recluse spiders become recluse spiders
  • monarch butterflies become butterflies
  • peach-faced lovebirds become lovebirds (masked lovebirds remain masked lovebirds)

Personally, I would welcome the change. I had already planned to make such raw changes, myself.

For my own play, though, I might take this a step further. That is, I'm tempted to combine some of the nearly identical animals. Does DF really need both peach-faced lovebirds and masked lovebirds? Does it really need nine different gibbons + various other small to medium primates?

...As for reduced animal names, it might be a nice lighter weight alternative to material standardization mods (for the purpose of less silly names). I would probably use it, but it will be quite a lot of different vanilla file edits so compatibility could end up being a hassle.

Granted, nearly any change to existing raws does have the potential to cause a compatibility issue with mods.
However, I don't understand how renaming a few animals would be a big deal even if it did conflict with mods. Isn't the worst that could happen would be that overwriting Revised's animal raws with a mod's animal raws would revert the simplified names back to vanilla defaults? Is that a deal-breaker?

Perhaps Taffer could make the simplified names part of a separate module, like he did for more hairy dwarves?

One way of balancing this out is splitting the mod into modules, preferably at points where it won't be too much work to keep them separate.

But that's just it: Maintaining separate, optional modules is very likely going to be more work.

This is especially true for larger, complex mods with several different optional modules. Modest Mod comes to mind, with 8 modules. Button had to add and update extra modules - "Everything Is Tameable for Accelerated", "Pedestals for Accelerated" and "Tooltips for Accelerated" - just to maintain module compatibility with Accelerated. Even then, some modules were not compatible with each other. And you may have noticed that Modest Mod hasn't been updated in a while...

The idea of having optional modules certainly does have its pros. And it may be the way to go. I just wanted to point out that there is a potentially significant con, too.

[Taffer]

Just thought I'd make another update post. Work is continuing, but mostly on the descriptions. I'm hoping to finish my body and armour edits so I can release something, but real life is really getting in the way lately and the descriptions are much more relaxing to work on than other things. I'm still working regularly, when I can. As always, you can check the repository.

Despite all of my work on them, the descriptions still need a lot of work. There's still grammatical errors here and there. I'm partway through getting size adjectives sorted out for everything (which is a bit of a mess). I need to gender every description, and I need to get rid of redundant and unnecessary sentences. I'm also slowly moving colours and patterns out of the description field and into the descriptors, where they belong. There's a lot of work left to do.

A few people have approached me to include my work in theirs, but it's worth warning that Revised is a moving target with a fair amount of changes, even if most of them don't affect gameplay. My perfectionism includes rewriting comments, for example: the next release will have many changes, but a lot of them are just me rewriting comments and editing descriptions. I'm not even sure Meph finished integrating the descriptions for the version he was including, and there's been quite a few changes since then (and many more are coming). And when the next release comes out mod-added weapons and armour won't be compatible out of the box, making integration difficult. As much as I want to claim otherwise, Revised just isn't a mod that can be easily merged into other mods. There's already quite a few changes, and that's just going to get worse (especially for tiered leather, creature removals, and material simplifications, if I do any of that).

Personally, I would welcome the change. I had already planned to make such raw changes, myself.

Welcome back, Thundercraft! I'm definitely in favour of simplifying names. I'm not sure how many more simplifications I could make in the current version, without removing creatures. I want to rename troglodytes to cavemen and cavewomen, but I haven't done so yet.

For my own play, though, I might take this a step further. That is, I'm tempted to combine some of the nearly identical animals. Does DF really need both peach-faced lovebirds and masked lovebirds? Does it really need nine different gibbons + various other small to medium primates?

I discussed this earlier in the thread. I'm hoping to combine these nearly identical animals using castes. Unfortunately this can lead to breeding weirdness, but it might be worth the cost. I'm also willing to simply remove creatures entirely at this stage. I've changed my mind since before.

Granted, nearly any change to existing raws does have the potential to cause a compatibility issue with mods.
However, I don't understand how renaming a few animals would be a big deal even if it did conflict with mods. Isn't the worst that could happen would be that overwriting Revised's animal raws with a mod's animal raws would revert the simplified names back to vanilla defaults? Is that a deal-breaker?

Perhaps Taffer could make the simplified names part of a separate module, like he did for more hairy dwarves?

...

But that's just it: Maintaining separate, optional modules is very likely going to be more work.

This is especially true for larger, complex mods with several different optional modules. Modest Mod comes to mind, with 8 modules. Button had to add and update extra modules - "Everything Is Tameable for Accelerated", "Pedestals for Accelerated" and "Tooltips for Accelerated" - just to maintain module compatibility with Accelerated. Even then, some modules were not compatible with each other. And you may have noticed that Modest Mod hasn't been updated in a while...

The idea of having optional modules certainly does have its pros. And it may be the way to go. I just wanted to point out that there is a potentially significant con, too.

Ultimately, I'm making this mod for myself. I know that's not a popular thing to say, but you're right: the Modest Mod hasn't been updated in a while, and if I'm not interested in maintaining it then I'm less likely to update it. Point in case: my tilesets. I have plans to redraw them for readability, but everyone seems to want custom drawn 20x20 versions and (if I'm honest) that's a big reason why I keep putting off that work.

I'm not interested in maintaining many different modules: they're a lot of extra work. The woolly-limbed dwarves already require extra tedium every time I edit creature_standard, and it's just going to get worse from there (and that's such a small change!). If I get more modules, I might integrate that into vanilla Revised.

[Witty]

Huge fan of the mod, glad to see work's still being done.

If you're still taking some suggestions, one of my personal favorite small modifications is adding back the human guild representative and the elven diplomat (looks like they've been added to the vanilla raws in the latest versions, oops) to their respective civ entities . The guild rep allows players to make specific caravan requests from human civs, and the diplomats will bicker about tree cutting quotas once you get some landed nobility. Not sure if these are the sort of gameplay enhancements you'd be interested in, of course.

[Thundercraft]

If you're still taking some suggestions, one of my personal favorite small modifications is adding back the human guild representative and the elven diplomat to their respective civ entities. The guild rep allows players to make specific caravan requests from human civs, and the diplomats will bicker about tree cutting quotas once you get some landed nobility.

I second the notion. :thumbsup:

[Sver]

If you're still taking some suggestions, one of my personal favorite small modifications is adding back the human guild representative and the elven diplomat (looks like they've been added to the vanilla raws in the latest versions, oops) to their respective civ entities . The guild rep allows players to make specific caravan requests from human civs, and the diplomats will bicker about tree cutting quotas once you get some landed nobility. Not sure if these are the sort of gameplay enhancements you'd be interested in, of course.

Huh? Was the elven diplomat absent for some time? I'm fairly sure it was a vanilla feature for quite long already.

I thoroughly support the idea of human trade representative though.