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[Weizen1988]

Shame we cant have artifact clothing (or at least ive never seen such a thing).

....I have an artifact copper boot, two artifact gloves (one leather decorated with marble, the other alpaca wool decorated with gold and lead), and my last fortress had an artifact silk hood with pictures of precious stones on it done in silver....

I would have preferred an artifact chair, frankly. Those are useful. Artifact clothing I tend to dress my Champion in, so he looks dapper. Seeing as my Champion only has one foot, that one boot thing is pretty damn successful actually.

Guess its just bad luck on my part. Had no idea you could get such things, I mostly get garbage weapons and armor, got like 3 artifact giant cave toad bone greaves, then a bunch of garbage jewelery.

You would do best with skinned egglayer for domestic leather production for simple setups. Turkeys are best domestic animals available, while ostriches are best overall (1 higher max, and 90k body size - 50% larger than dwarves). 40 egglayer strong turkey farm can produce 960 leather a year, and several times that in bones, meat, tallow.

More exotically, you could put creatures on chain to have them breed, then tear apart the children. A timed release mechanism could even ensure the children are fully-grown first.
I have seen mentions of serrated blade traps being effective dicing weapons. Though you'd need to obviously slice them into 4 pieces even with triplets born to match turkeys.
Hydras, having 7 heads, would be ideal.

However, either way, you can then reanimate the untanned hide and slice it into smaller pieces. Though note that pieces can get too small for weapon or bare-handed attacks to properly slay them (and I think only obsidian or ice casting would preserve the hide for tanning, of which ice is the only one that you can remove with mechanisms), so careful planning need to go into automating this, lest you risk your fortress.


Or you could buy leather from caravan. Starting at 5 a piece, and maxing out at 50 for maximum-priority(x2) elephant (x5) leather it's not expensive at all - you could buy 100 dog leather for a single masterful spiked wooden ball.

And the caravans will bring you hundreds of leather when maxing all of it out. Could produce shoes, trousers and cloaks for whole population several times over.

And yeah, they don't degrade, unless hit in combat in 43.04+ - only leather clothing degrades. Though I personally leave off backbags in my drafts, as that loses the happy thoughts from dining in awesome rooms and gives potential of storing backbag in a room and having food in it rot.

Hadnt considered the rot at all. That saves a bit more leather.

[Fleeting Frames]

No luck. Ensure all your dwarves have highest moodable skill tanner/leatherworker/weaver/clothier, and you will only get artifact clothing.

[Weizen1988]

No luck. Ensure all your dwarves have highest moodable skill tanner/leatherworker/weaver/clothier, and you will only get artifact clothing.

That still sounds like it involves luck (something outside of the direct control of the player, an RNG of some kind, I assume it works more or less like "roll to determine if anyone moods." "yes, mood happens, roll to determine who moods" "mood happens to urist mcmoody" "check highest moodable skill, go make random thing based on that skill" or something along those lines, its early in the morning, and i dont feel up to looking at files and trying to figure it out just yet) as I see it, really hate to disagree though, perhaps i dont understand something about it. Having high skill doesnt somehow lock that dwarf into only making artifacts, they have to get a mood yes? I mean, I have an artifact weapon, that suggests that ive got a weaponsmith who -can- make artifacts, but hes only ever made one, and only as a result of the mood, so far as I can tell one mood = one artifact, outside of that artifact, he makes masterpieces all day, which as I understand it, are shittier, but better than regular weapons, being just a quality modifier. That mood requires that some kind of internal roll happen to initiate a mood, and that that dwarf be the one who moods (ive never seen more than one mood at a time, so this is i admit an assumption based on lack of information). I have several dwarves whos only labors at all are getting silk, making cloth, and turning that into clothing, all they have done for 4 years. I get only masterpiece clothing, shitloads of it, but that isnt an artifact. The existence of some kind of internal die roll that picks who will get a mood, means that getting artifact clothing still requires luck in order to initiate the mood, because it could just as easily mood some other random craftsdwarf and have them make a necklace or some other junk. Unless you mean operate a fort where no one is any good at anything except for my tailors, and then youve got that most of the moods ive gotten were "urist mcchild is possessed!" and goes off to produce something totally random. And that fort would almost certainly die off because you would have to make every other dwarf suck at their job to prevent moods relating to those. So youd have nice clothes, but poorly made weapons and armor or some other tradeoff, and would have to micromanage and stop any dwarf from ever getting good at their job to prevent them eating up moods making other stuff.

But its also early in the morning, so Ive probably misunderstood something about all this.

[Bumber]

Don't need to wait that long - tested embarking with five poults just now, got leather and 2 fat/meat from 3 of them (and skull from all of them).

Can you get leather from them as soon as they hatch?

[Weizen1988]

Don't need to wait that long - tested embarking with five poults just now, got leather and 2 fat/meat from 3 of them (and skull from all of them).

Can you get leather from them as soon as they hatch?

This would be ideal, so im actually interested in that too. I dont expect another caravan for quite some time though, or id buy some and try to check.

[Fleeting Frames]

Dunno, but said test indicates probably not from all of them.
I've never tried, as I stick them into a cage the first thing due FPS.

@Weizen:
Paragraphs and wiki may be helpful to you in understanding how moods work and how often they happen.

Wiki will also be helpful in understanding what quality actually does.
Though it doesn't mention that legendary warriors slaughter gib pretty much anything even when wearing low quality gear or that you don't need a military on that page.
In my recently run Moonhome, no enemies landed any hits on any dwarves after the initial wildlife training period post-embark, while most of the 48 unexpected guests were killed with military.

And how to prevent micromanagement if spreading experience around.
You can also just give the moodable skills you're training to legendary +5 to citizens who cannot mood.

If you have some random children mood, then you probably didn't zero the child cap (some can still arrive through migration, but those few you can atomsmash if you wish).

All a fort needs to not die off is drink, food, and threats kept out. My average "does this embark have evil mist" test forts consist of a box, a food stockpile and plant gathering zone with some source of water available.

[utunnels]

Wild animals is a good source if you want to RP (don't rely on the mountainhome). Naked mole dogs can breed fast if you can trap them, but nothing is faster than hunting live animals.
I guess some people might like beak dogs if they can get goblin sieges.  You can actually get hundreds of leathers if you hack them all up. Or capture and throw them down a deep pit and collect the blown apart limbs.

[Weizen1988]

Dunno, but said test indicates probably not from all of them.
I've never tried, as I stick them into a cage the first thing due FPS.

@Weizen:
Paragraphs and wiki may be helpful to you in understanding how moods work and how often they happen.

Wiki will also be helpful in understanding what quality actually does.
Though it doesn't mention that legendary warriors slaughter gib pretty much anything even when wearing low quality gear or that you don't need a military on that page.
In my recently run Moonhome, no enemies landed any hits on any dwarves after the initial wildlife training period post-embark, while most of the 48 unexpected guests were killed with military.

And how to prevent micromanagement if spreading experience around.
You can also just give the moodable skills you're training to legendary +5 to citizens who cannot mood.

If you have some random children mood, then you probably didn't zero the child cap (some can still arrive through migration, but those few you can atomsmash if you wish).

All a fort needs to not die off is drink, food, and threats kept out. My average "does this embark have evil mist" test forts consist of a box, a food stockpile and plant gathering zone with some source of water available.

Sorry about formatting, awkward for me to type on phones.

[OAOGigmaster]

After trying to get leather out in enough quantities to fulfill the needs of a moderately sized military, the best way by far is to order it from the outpost liason. My last fortress died with over 1000 pieces of tanned hide in stocks. Arguably, you could pump out that much leather with a vast egg-laying and breeding room with skinnable fowl, but practically few ever get to that point.

[mikekchar]

My understanding is that the chance of getting leather/meat from poults depends on their size.  Large ones will, while small ones won't.  I keep wondering if you can breed animal for various characteristics -- potentially creating a flock of large turkeys.  At the moment I'm using geese with the idea that goslings might be bigger than poults (maybe a bad assumption?  I just built up my flock, so I should start slaughtering goslings to see what the return is...  But, no matter what, I think I'll end up with far too much meat.  I suppose I can make prepared meals and become very rich, buying out the caravan every year ;-)

Although it would make DF a *lot* harder for newbies, it would be nice if you could tweak how hungry/thirsty your dwarfs get so that you had a bit more of a challenge food-wise...  I kind of enjoy the production side of the game and Dwarf Farm is quite fun, but there is very little challenge.

[Fleeting Frames]

Well, you can set your own challenges, and make like Breadbowl with goal of feeding all the dwarves in your civ.

[PatrikLundell]

Changing the number of times per month the dorfs eat/drink will cause trouble because the time it takes to move to/from the work site plus eating. Changing the yield is probably a better choice, which is what I think is what Toady intends to do when farming/nutrition is addressed sometime beyond the planned horizon. Changing the amount eaten/drunk at a time can complicate things as well, where eating ought to implement multi haul to only grab one batch of grub for each eating session.

[Fleeting Frames]

Well, we're in peak food. Changing the nutrition alone would mean that a fortress would have to have possibly up to all food industries to not have dwarves die of scurry or something (plant, meat, fish...egg, bee, cooking, sunlight?).

Combined with dwarven lack of skills in seeking out meals they need and eating just 8 times a year, this could easily mean that just hosting each industry wouldn't be enough to sustain a fortress; timed alternating at the very least, if not micromanaging roasts to provide all the vitamins - and there's enough industries that you probably can't do this for single recipe, meaning you'd have to produce just enough roasts for a single meal at time, switching which roasts are produced up to 8 times per year.

Automating such a task would be no trivial challenge. You'd probably have to isolate the (sacrificial) cook as well, to prevent dwarves from eating the raw ingredients. Then replace cooks as they get the scurry or die.

With this alone, yield need not be altered, though having farms depend on nutrition would be neat as well - getting it wrong will have overproduction kill your fortress, as dwarves kill themselves by seeking out their favoured foods (hey, junk food), or killing your fortress as whole through FPS.

[PatrikLundell]

We're actually a little beyond peak food... I think it was 0.42.01 that changed food consumption so the embark resources were enough for late summer/early autumn rather than early winter (depending on the sizes of the first migration wave, of course). That caught me by surprise as I hadn't bothered starting brewing until the second migration wave prior to that.

A nutrition based model would have to adjust dorf behavior to act to get what's needed. I'd probably use some kind of "nutrition bar" for each kind of food and have it deplete from full to empty over about a year. A dorf would then get increased craving levels the lower the bar falls. Depending of dorf personality, the "need vs desire" level at which favored food trumps needed food would differ. Dorfs would obviously need to be capable of "evaluating" roasts for their level of satisfaction (including the junk food aspect).
Also note that recipes would probably be introduced at the same time or prior to nutrition, so you can set up your kitchen to produce a range of meals, not just one recipe at a time. However, recipes need to have some flexibility so they can take "fruit" rather than "carambola" or something like that, or a well rounded fortress would drown in recipes to cover everything that's produced.

If roasts were to satisfy more needs than single ingredients and dorfs would be capable of sensing what they need, raw food nibbling issues would automatically be reduced to mostly satisfy desire.
NW_Kohaku has a suggestion thread about nutrition.

[Fleeting Frames]

Yeah, dorfs obviously need to be capable of evaluating roasts to seek out what they like now as well...But they don't. I don't expect that to change - otherwise, where's the challenge if dwarves are more capable of feeding themselves properly than current humans with net at their fingertips?

Fulfilling the needs of all your dwarves is similar challenge - some are impossible, while others are merely hard. Though the price for partial failure is low.

As for recipes, eh. Can do those right now with stockpile links or job item-material.

PS: Was going by this regarding peak food.