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[Taffer]

what about ASTRINGENT?

Glad to see the list will be culled a little. Personally, I think the more words removed the better: if the dictionaries are too verbose, names will stop making sense and interesting words will get buried by obscure or duplicate terms. I would definitely get rid of astringent: the language raws are used, more or less, as a tool for naming things. I have difficulty picturing anybody naming something "astringentiron" or whatever. The same goes for the rest of the obscure words.

When I find time I'll continue where I left off.

ANTHRACITE - keeping - HARD TYPE OF COAL BURNING WITH LITTLE FLAME AND SMOKE - its an actual item in game in Masterwork

Is there any hope of keeping Masterwork materials and items to the Masterwork download? I'd personally be offput if my dwarves named their fortress after a material that doesn't exist. I'll probably start removing these myself when I use the dictionaries, and collect a list of them.

EDIT: Others might disagree with me, but I would prefer to keep the words for weapons, metals, stone, gems, wood, plants, and armour limited to what is available in the vanilla game (or Masterwork, for that version of the mod).

[Amostubal]

what about ASTRINGENT?

Glad to see the list will be culled a little. Personally, I think the more words removed the better: if the dictionaries are too verbose, then names will stop making sense and interesting words will get buried by obscure or duplicate terms. I would definitely get rid of astringent: the language raws are used, more or less, as a tool for naming things. I have difficulty picturing anybody naming something "astringentiron" or whatever. The same goes for the rest of the obscure words.

When I find time I'll continue where I left off.

ANTHRACITE - keeping - HARD TYPE OF COAL BURNING WITH LITTLE FLAME AND SMOKE - its an actual item in game in Masterwork

Is there any hope of keeping Masterwork materials and items to the Masterwork download? I'd personally be offput if my dwarves named their fortress after a material that doesn't exist. I'll probably start removing these myself when I use the dictionaries, and collect a list of them.

Others might disagree with me, but I would prefer to keep the words for weapons, metals, stone, gems, wood, plants, and armour limited to what is available in the vanilla game (or Masterwork, for that version of the mod).

 

interesting suggestion.  I could come up with a way to markup entries as masterwork only, and then only have them propagate in the masterwork edition.  I'll look into this week, it might not be the next version, but it will definitely be in the version after that.  Could possibly if the request is made use the same markup system for say "mature" and then propagate out those too for some people.  your right there is no need for materials from masterwork appearing in vanilla.  and I could produce a third version called G-rated vanilla DF, lol.

If you see a plant, gem, metal, stone, wood, or animal etc, that isn't in Vanilla DF let me know, if its in Masterwork, I'll add it to a list for the above suggestion.  I really just didn't feel like looking up every item in game to verify at the time, so I dumped a lot of them that I was pretty sure not in there, and kept those I wasn't sure about.  I've played so many mod packs, I get confused about which are and which are not in vanilla.

[Amostubal]

modified my suffixs that I just started adding.
here's the appearance in the dictionary.
<W:SUFFIX_SHIP><N:0000100001:ship:ships><D:THE POSITION OR RANK OF THIS IE APPRENTICESHIP, LORDSHIP, ETC><S><B><T:DWARF:oglod:ELF:fras:GOBLIN:ulan:HUMAN:elsa:ORC:umdush:SUCCUB:fire:KOBOLD:abida:NAGA:apsa:NECRO:gorn>
which should give them REAR COMPUND SING and PLUR so we can have names like apprenticeships and lordships etc.
so far fixed SUFFIX_NESS (there was 804 nouns with that ending.
going to put in SUFFIX_ER SUFFIX_OR SUFFIX_ABLE SUFFIX_ION

other suggestions/possibilities would be appreciated, each one reduces the total size of the entire thing which would help with load and save times.  potential other memory issues.  Also provides some stability in how words change for different uses and reduce multi-entries from appearing.

[Nightcore Angel]

Impressive! I hope hilarity ensue 

[Amostubal]

It has.... something about having a furnace operator named arsonexpected, a succubus with the name orgasmfiercely.... I've been mailed quite a few that made me laugh.  If you see anything really out of "time" and "place" let me know.  I'm actually down about 1000 entries from the current upload version and working through a few reductions, so that some words don't end up with multiple editions, and several fun suffixes will replace a lot of the versatility for when one is producing there own names.  Come join the fun!  Thanks for your interest!

[Amostubal]

VERSION 0.10.2 has been uploaded.  last update until after new years.  So before I go into the details, first off Merry Christmas, Happy New Years, and happy holidays to everyone.

so first off:
ChangeLog v 0.10.2
1. removed approximately 2500 words, mostly because obscure, duplicate, or unnecessary.
2. created race_XXXX, for each of the races, so they could be easily seen in the word.txt
3. renamed all the suffixes to SUFFIX_XXXX, to keep them together and easily viewable in the raw.
4. added several suffixes as many words that end in er, or, ee, ition, ation, ion were deprecated to reduce the file size.
5. overall there is a reduction in size of approximately 18% from last version.

1.  I couldn't begin to tell you the number of entries removed.  There was several that were just already covered under other entries, others were obscure, some were left over tech/modern words I hadn't seen in the file.   Several parts of entries were removed as I prepared the file for suffixes,  this removes a lot of the cutter and moves towards a more uniform appearance of what is kept in the file.  None of the original words in the original files from DF should of been removed, if one has let me know I'll put it back. 

2.  Race words.... lol first time I said that positively... its easier to show you the entries.  basically I removed any other words referring to the races and replaced them with this group:

Code: [Select]

<W:RACE_DWARF><N:0111110001:dwarf:dwarves><A:110:dwarvish> <S><B><T:DWARF:nerkod:ELF:cuni:GOBLIN:zetoslu:HUMAN:zurkom:ORC:agduurgund:SUCCUB:arodas:KOBOLD:obanild:NAGA:msimine:NECRO:jhakeyr>
<W:RACE_ELF><N:0111110001:elf:elves><A:110:elvish> <S><B><T:DWARF:vuksh:ELF:ivemo:GOBLIN:kogme:HUMAN:visa:ORC:shaghakh:SUCCUB:pixove:KOBOLD:hebenta:NAGA:ensaan:NECRO:alha>
<W:RACE_GOBLIN><N:0111110001:goblin:goblins> <S><B><T:DWARF:unuk:ELF:mesluni:GOBLIN:axodot:HUMAN:dukbu:ORC:morguurz:SUCCUB:adaxath:KOBOLD:inampsa:NAGA:aashemus:NECRO:afender>
<W:RACE_HUMAN><A:110:human><N:0111110001:human:humans> <S:><B><T:DWARF:zevon:ELF:eciliti:GOBLIN:esnoza:HUMAN:azebud:ORC:yagrishasha:SUCCUB:civesus:KOBOLD:jenenompsi:NAGA:essani:NECRO:asewmel>
<W:RACE_KOBOLD><N:0111110001:kobold:kobolds> <S:><B><T:DWARF:tokmatem:ELF:cokathapa:GOBLIN:eluspod:HUMAN:othurel:ORC:oghmoghor:SUCCUB:aroleraluse:KOBOLD:enonshanty:NAGA:ananissem:NECRO:weuf fyeran>
<W:RACE_NAGA><N:0111110001:naga:nagas> <S:><B><T:DWARF:therlethud:ELF:imazino:GOBLIN:slorustug:HUMAN:roshabo:ORC:pradburshara:SUCCUB:alideleule:KOBOLD:homheni:NAGA:guumsenima:NECRO:rejlthban>
<W:RACE_NECROMANCER><N:0111110001:necromancy:necromancies><N:0111110001:necromancer:necromancers> <S:DEATH:MAGIC><B><T:DWARF:babal:ELF:inidi:GOBLIN:kezak:HUMAN:ejehgok:ORC:iliimbugbuut:SUCCUB:dilous:KOBOLD:bempsibenentold:NAGA:sergine:NECRO:myefa>
<W:RACE_ORC><N:0111110001:orc:orcs> <S:><B><T:DWARF:tirdugnesin:ELF:iyamurali:GOBLIN:entustrata:HUMAN:mogesusut:ORC:nuuthratuuk:SUCCUB:odovecovore:KOBOLD:empsabibonon:NAGA:amamushi:NECRO:ghashem ueym lha>
<W:RACE_SUCCUBUS><N:0111110001:succubus:succubi><N:0111110001:incubus:incubi> <S:EVIL:MYTHIC><B><T:DWARF:lotsar:ELF:iquuya:GOBLIN:bosnuda:HUMAN:voshem:ORC:agrishnazgak:SUCCUB:avire:KOBOLD:shintebi:NAGA:imaas:NECRO:lhejaf>
so now all the races have a word for the other... I took a little liberty and created these by hand.....

3&4.  well its probably easier to show these too:

Code: [Select]

<W:SUFFIX_ATION><N:0000100001:ation:ations><D:ACTION OR CONDITION OF><S><B><T:DWARF:bak:ELF:eci:GOBLIN:nub:HUMAN:ali:ORC:hak:SUCCUB:cor:KOBOLD:ibi:NAGA:nan:NECRO:at>
<W:SUFFIX_E><N:0000100001:e:es><D:PERSON OR THING BEING ACTED UPON><S><B><T:DWARF:ad:ELF:isa:GOBLIN:elo:HUMAN:ev:ORC:ugh:SUCCUB:ala:KOBOLD:iman:NAGA:imes:NECRO:edkref>
<W:SUFFIX_EE><N:0000100001:ee:ees><D:PERSON OR THING BEING ACTED UPON><S><B><T:DWARF:ad:ELF:isa:GOBLIN:elo:HUMAN:ev:ORC:ugh:SUCCUB:ala:KOBOLD:iman:NAGA:imes:NECRO:edkref>
<W:SUFFIX_ER><N:0000100001:er:ers><D:PERSON OR THING PERFORMING AN ACTION><S><B><T:DWARF:ud:ELF:ifa:GOBLIN:emo:HUMAN:av:ORC:ug:SUCCUB:al:KOBOLD:im:NAGA:ime:NECRO:edf>
<W:SUFFIX_ION><N:0000100001:ion:ions><D:ACTION OR CONDITION OF><S><B><T:DWARF:bak:ELF:eci:GOBLIN:nub:HUMAN:ali:ORC:hak:SUCCUB:cor:KOBOLD:ibi:NAGA:nan:NECRO:at>
<W:SUFFIX_ITION><N:0000100001:ition:itons><D:ACTION OR CONDITION OF><S><B><T:DWARF:bak:ELF:eci:GOBLIN:nub:HUMAN:ali:ORC:hak:SUCCUB:cor:KOBOLD:ibi:NAGA:nan:NECRO:at>
<W:SUFFIX_NESS><N:0000100001:ness:nesses><D:THE QUALITY OR STATE OF BEING THIS><S><B><T:DWARF:od:ELF:da:GOBLIN:ul:HUMAN:el:ORC:ush:SUCCUB:ire:KOBOLD:abi:NAGA:ap:NECRO:ra>
<W:SUFFIX_ON><N:0000100001:on:ons><D:ACTION OR CONDITION OF><S><B><T:DWARF:bak:ELF:eci:GOBLIN:nub:HUMAN:ali:ORC:hak:SUCCUB:cor:KOBOLD:ibi:NAGA:nan:NECRO:at>
<W:SUFFIX_OR><N:0000100001:or:ors><D:PERSON OR THING PERFORMING AN ACTION><S><B><T:DWARF:ud:ELF:ifa:GOBLIN:emo:HUMAN:av:ORC:ug:SUCCUB:al:KOBOLD:im:NAGA:ime:NECRO:edf>
<W:SUFFIX_R><N:0000100001:r:rs><D:PERSON OR THING PERFORMING AN ACTION><S><B><T:DWARF:ud:ELF:ifa:GOBLIN:emo:HUMAN:av:ORC:ug:SUCCUB:al:KOBOLD:im:NAGA:ime:NECRO:edf>
<W:SUFFIX_RESS><N:0000100001:ress:resses><D:FEMALE PERFORMING AN ACTION><S><B><T:DWARF:ar:ELF:iwi:GOBLIN:usm:HUMAN:ama:ORC:dush:SUCCUB:axe:KOBOLD:en:NAGA:imemi:NECRO:edf>
<W:SUFFIX_SHIP><N:0000100001:ship:ships><D:THE POSITION OR RANK OF THIS IE APPRENTICESHIP, LORDSHIP, ETC><S><B><T:DWARF:oglod:ELF:fras:GOBLIN:ulan:HUMAN:elsa:ORC:umdush:SUCCUB:fire:KOBOLD:abida:NAGA:apsa:NECRO:gorn>
<W:SUFFIX_TION><N:0000100001:tion:tions><D:ACTION OR CONDITION OF><S><B><T:DWARF:bak:ELF:eci:GOBLIN:nub:HUMAN:ali:ORC:hak:SUCCUB:cor:KOBOLD:ibi:NAGA:nan:NECRO:at>
there you go, if you look closely 0000100001 = rear compound noun.  So all these suffixes can only be added to the rear.  Also of note since er,or,r are treated as the same, their translations all are the same.  same goes for all the ation,ition,tion,ion,on words.

No ion noun was removed if there wasn't a base word that a suffix could be tied to, to form the word.  I did remove words like suffocation, whose base is suffocate, that is why there is so many options, as I wanted the player to be able to choose say suffocateon or suffocateion to express it.  Words that made sever changes(letter changes internally) to their forms to reach ion, were ignored and left in the file.

All in all this was a huge job and the reduction was about 18% of the total size of the game files,  which should show up markedly in response time.   As always report any errors you spot to me as soon as possible and I'll try and get it into the next version.  I'm still looking to reduce the file by 3500 more entries/20% more if possible and will probably do it through removal of obscure words and odd adjectives.  See all of you after the holidays!

[Taffer]

VERSION 0.10.2 has been uploaded.  last update until after new years.  So before I go into the details, first off Merry Christmas, Happy New Years, and happy holidays to everyone.

Fantastic update. I've been holding off on reviewing things until after this update.

Between Christmas and my own modding and tileset work, I haven't found the time to review the whole file. I have, however, some scattered thoughts on the new update, starting with a list of included words for masterwork-only materials.

  • Anthracite
  • Bituminous coal
  • Lignite
  • Tungsten

There are a number of vanilla materials not in the words list (eg cobaltite).

Words that I've happened to notice so far that might also warrant culling:

  • ANTARCTIC (real world continent. Also means "south pole" though, so I'm torn. Not all generated worlds have south frozen regions, however.)
  • ANNUALIZED ("to calculate or adjust to reflect a rate based on a full year")
  • ARETE (interesting but obscure, and properly spelt arκte. "a sharp-crested ridge in rugged mountains")
  • AURIFEROUS (interesting but obscure. "containing gold")
  • BINNACLE ("a housing for a ship's compass and a lamp", obscure)
  • HAEMATITE (superfluous alternate spelling of HEMATITE, which you already have)

It's also worth renaming ANTIMONY to STIBNITE, as you don't have a word for stibnite and that's what antimony is in game. From inorganic_stone_mineral.txt:

ore of antimony
[INORGANIC:STIBNITE]

Thank you kindly! Hope it helps. I quite like your mod, and as far as I'm concerned the more superfluous words I can help cull, the better naming becomes and the better my load times become.

[Amostubal]

Ok I know that anthracite is an MW only word... Tungsten I don't think is even in MW.   But bituminous coal and lignite are both in vanilla I'm fairly certain.... it's been a year or so for me, but I remember those are the normal coke sources right?

Cobaltite needs to be put in (or back in, it might of been kicked while I was tossing elements by accident).... think I'll snatched blue rock as the name from each race...

Antarctica is the continent.... Antarctic is having to do with it... we have enough polar words so I'm going to so toss it.
Annualized - out... I thought I kicked it already.
Auriferous - ehh.... hmmm... I like it but it is obscure reference.  Toss.
Binnacle - out, I missed it when tossing ship terminology.
Haematite-  missed it out...

Antimony/stibnite- interesting I did not know that.  I'll make the change in the word for English, but will leave it at antimony since I've got several making race language files based on it.   Future editions I'm going to release the word list changes so they can edit their language files faster.

Any other suggestions?  I'm away from my systems so these changes won't go in until after new years. (I might not even get a chance to actually touch the files until the 2nd... so I would appreciate anything now that I can be figuring up ideas on before I get back).

I want it down to 10k entries in the dictionary, it's at 13500 or so now... and removing junk seems the best way to do it.   I think at 10k is just a perfect fit.

[Taffer]

Tungsten I don't think is even in MW.

It's mentioned in the manual included in the download as an included inorganic. I don't play Masterwork, so I'm just going by the readme.

But bituminous coal and lignite are both in vanilla I'm fairly certain.... it's been a year or so for me, but I remember those are the normal coke sources right?

You're right. Apologies! Not sure how I missed that. Both are in vanilla.

Any other suggestions?

Not at this time because of the holidays, but I intend to go through the list more carefully.

[Amostubal]

Tungsten I don't think is even in MW.

It's mentioned in the manual included in the download as an included inorganic. I don't play Masterwork, so I'm just going by the readme.

confirmed its in Masterwork, its a dust item in certain races for decoration grinded from stones that contain tungsten.

OKAY EVERYONE YOUR ON NOTICE!

lol I'm back to working on the project... Holidays have been long enough.

Goals for next several releases, I don't want to do all of these immediately, but this quarter(Jan.-Mar.)
1.  I'm looking at reducing the word entries to under 10k, current count 13,522, primarily through removing junk, ambiguous, duplicate, and obscurity.  Any suggestions are welcome.
2.  Produce a separate word list for MasterWork for words for metals, products, byproducts only available in MasterWork will appear.  The goal is to move them into a target word section so that I can reject them from one set easily (they will appear as MW_XXXXXXX, just like suffixes appear as SUFFIX_XXXXX)
3.  Start cleaning up spelling errors.
4.  Reduce word length in the translation files, I know for some this may upset them, but some complaints I have received is the word length in certain languages.
5.  Start cleaning up position errors.
6.  Identify Vanilla and Masterwork words that are missing (especially rocks, month names, tools, armor pieces, etc.).

Again anyone who has suggestions, will greatly be appreciated.  Taffer, I'm going ot have to add you to the credits if you give me double what you have done so far... lol.

[Button]

PTW

[Taffer]

Again anyone who has suggestions, will greatly be appreciated.  Taffer, I'm going ot have to add you to the credits if you give me double what you have done so far... lol.

Apologies Amostubal, but my time the past few months has been greatly occupied (more than expected). I made my way through the "A"s, but then ran out of steam. I still quite like your work here: it's appreciated. I can't promise that I'll finish, but I am motivated to try (I want to integrate this into Revised).

[Amostubal]

well i went on hiatus, too.  I started working on other projects and kind of left this one behind.  I was really kind of holding off an anymore updates until most modpacks updated to 43.05 x64.  I find it disheartening how it lags and freezes during loads, and there was some reports of large graphic sets and the language file not working well together.  We think it might be the issue in the current masterwork setup.  So I'm now testing the language file on a 43.05 x64 setup I put together for masterwork, seeing if I can replicate the 43.03 x32 crash points.  If they don't occur, I'll be satisfied with moving forward with this mod.  If I get the same crash data I had in 43.03 I'll have to scrap or completely rework this idea.

I've got about 4 pages of reports on words that need to be removed.  My current mod set is already 1500 words down from the last public release.  I've been copying all the weird stuff into a single document so I can get back to them.  I'm hoping that before the end of spring to have a better version up.  but if the aforementioned crashes are still occurring in MW, well I'm going to scrap the top->down model, and switch to an bottom->up model.  I'll start posting request pages for words not in original vanilla DF, that people want to see in the language files, and just work my way back upwards. 

[Urist McGoombaBrother]

I just noticed following words are within Vanilla Dwarf Fortress, but were kicked out of your expanded library. Probably you want to put them back in?

Code: [Select]

ARCH NOUN
BAND GROUP
BAND OBJECT
BLOCK DEFEND
BLOCK SQUARE
CELL
CHARTREUSE
COMMUNION
CRUCIFY
DESTRUCTION
DEVOURER
DRINKER
FELLOWSHIP
FERAL
GORE NOUN
GULF DISTANCE
GULF PIT
GULF SEA
HAIL GREET
HAIL ICE
HANDLE OBJECT
HANDLE VERB
MESSIAH
OCHRE
ONE_PREF
PERSUADER
PLANET
REMARKABLE
THROWER
TROOPER
ULCER
UNSWERVING
WORKER
WORSHIPPER

[GoblinCookie]

Is [BAZAAR] supposed to be symbolic of good?