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Author Topic: Population Cap Questions  (Read 2376 times)

Population Cap Questions
« on: November 09, 2016, 11:33:35 am »

Hello friends, i'm new to this game, i'm using peridexiserrant starter pack. And some of the features of this pack are confused me.

First, what is "Strict Population Cap" and what's it differences with normal Population Cap

Second, How can we set Children Cap actually? When i click child cap it's opens two different setting window, first one is "Absolute cap on babies + children" and the second one is: "Max percentage of children in fort" what are that means? And which one of them will be selected as actual child and babies cap?

Thank you...
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Population Cap Questions
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2016, 01:42:29 pm »

Pop cap: The level at which migrants stop arriving (killing off fortress population to below that level will get migrations going again, in principle: substantial death at a fortress is a migration deterrent, so it may take a while for migrants to build up the courage).
Strict pop cap: The level at which no more pregnancies will be started (current ones will still proceed). There are a few minor things that can push the pop marginally above that. Also note that the strict pop cap does not affect visitors (I don't know if petitions will cease when the cap is reached, though).
Absolute child cap: No more kids than X. Percentage cap: There may not be more than Y% kids in relation to adults.
Thus 5:10 would limit the number of kids to 2 in a 20 adult pop fortress (second parameter), 5 in a 50 adult pop one (both parameters), and 5 in a 100 adult pop fortress (first parameter).

Note that these parameter can be changed as you play (quit and reload for it to take effect). I've used that to increase the pop cap to current pop + 10 for every migration wave to pace the pop growth.
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Fleeting Frames

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Re: Population Cap Questions
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2016, 01:46:42 pm »

Relevant, it probably edits d_init.txt. Snip from it:
Quote
You can set the maximum population of your fortress here.  Keep in mind that your population must be at least 80 to get a king and 100 to obtain the current game features.  The strict cap also stops fort births.  Both caps can be violated by a few special cases, like the arrival of the monarch if you qualify.

[POPULATION_CAP:200]
[STRICT_POPULATION_CAP:220]

This allows you to control the number of babies+children in your fortress.  The first number is an absolute cap on the number of babies+children.  The second is a percentage of the current number of adults in your fortress (the default is the essentially meaningless 1000% here).  The lower number is used as the cap.  The cap only prevents further pregnancies, so migrant children, multiple births and existing pregnancies from old saves can still push you over the cap.  Setting either number to zero will disallow pregnancies in the fortress.

[BABY_CHILD_CAP:10:20]

You can set the maximum number of visitors to your fort here.  This does not include merchants, diplomats, animals or invaders, but only those either dropping by for a temporary visit to a tavern, library or temple, or those seeking permanent employment.  Once you accept a petition from a visitor to stay at your fort, they no longer count against the cap, even if they never become a full citizen.

[VISITOR_CAP:100]

Also, note that it is slightly outdated - nowadays, you must be a metropolis (140+ dwarves) to have monarch arrive, though if you don't want one I believe 80 will give you access to all other features.

Also, if you're using dfhack you can adjust pop cap during run-time with this neat script, to do ex. what PatrickLundell described.

Thisfox

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Re: Population Cap Questions
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2016, 04:17:15 pm »

They can push the cap around a bit. I've a cap of one child per fort at the moment (I'm trying to crack aquifers, but I'm having pump issues, which might, I'm realising, be bugs) and my first migrant wave was three dwarf children (WHERE ARE YOUR PARENTS?) and nothing else. So much for a cap of one kid. They're good kids, though, and once I assigned a playroom (a room with beds assigned to each child) were almost always to be found in said playroom. I was worried I would drown them when I made an unexpected waterwheel fountain.
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Mules gotta spleen. Dwarfs gotta eat.
Thisfox likes aquifers, olivine, Forgotten Beasts for their imagination, & dorfs for their stupidity. She prefers to consume gin & tonic. She absolutely detests Facebook.
"Urist McMason died out of pure spite to make you wonder why he was suddenly dead"
Oh god... Plump Helmet Man Mimes!

PatrikLundell

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Re: Population Cap Questions
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2016, 05:02:17 pm »

They can push the cap around a bit. I've a cap of one child per fort at the moment (I'm trying to crack aquifers, but I'm having pump issues, which might, I'm realising, be bugs) and my first migrant wave was three dwarf children (WHERE ARE YOUR PARENTS?) and nothing else. So much for a cap of one kid. They're good kids, though, and once I assigned a playroom (a room with beds assigned to each child) were almost always to be found in said playroom. I was worried I would drown them when I made an unexpected waterwheel fountain.
Well, Fleeting Frames quoted the d_init.txt description, which says the child parameters don't affect migrants, so it probably doesn't...
When you've butchered a gobbo/necro siege you may very well find your kids playing in the middle of the battle ground, as that's where they happened to be when they decided it was play time again (since they'd just gotten some fresh blood soaked underwear off a cooling corpse). You might try to place a toy stockpile in the kids' room as well.

I can't say I've had any pump issues: both the regular double-slit and the portable drain methods have worked fine for me (which doesn't rule out bugs, of course).
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Thisfox

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Re: Population Cap Questions
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2016, 09:35:22 pm »

I can't say I've had any pump issues: both the regular double-slit and the portable drain methods have worked fine for me (which doesn't rule out bugs, of course).

I can drain the first level of aquifer just fine, and smooth the walls etc so that that level is dry.... but the pumps I then install on that level to pump out the second level pump away merrily.... Moving no water at all. The second level is always 7-deep, no matter how many pumps are directly above that level, no matter how much they are moving and pumping merrily away. I've managed a lot of aquifers in the past (13 levels, 15 levels deep) but I've never had this happen before. I don't know if water has had a makeover since I last played (a year or two ago) or if something else is going wrong.

Heh. Whoops. This is totally off topic for population cap questions, sorry.
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Mules gotta spleen. Dwarfs gotta eat.
Thisfox likes aquifers, olivine, Forgotten Beasts for their imagination, & dorfs for their stupidity. She prefers to consume gin & tonic. She absolutely detests Facebook.
"Urist McMason died out of pure spite to make you wonder why he was suddenly dead"
Oh god... Plump Helmet Man Mimes!

Fleeting Frames

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Re: Population Cap Questions
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2016, 12:04:55 am »

It might be, but to answer it: Your pump might be pumping into non-aquifer perhaps, which is not filling up?

Alternatively, you're trying to pump when there's stairs or something on the input tile. This does not work.

Or the pump is oriented wrong way.

Water has had no makeovers to my knowledge, but I only started this year ^^;; I have however pierced aquifers with pump, so....Shouldn't be possible to not work, let alone only work for 1 layer only (though last aquifer layer does take different treatments sometimes.

PatrikLundell

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Re: Population Cap Questions
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2016, 03:32:17 am »

My main guess at the pump issue is the way I frequently screw up: forgetting to channel away the stair at the input and output when moving down a level (going away for a while and then coming back has the nasty side effect of thinking you know how to do things, with tiny bits actually being forgotten). I haven't seen any changes to pump behavior either.
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Thisfox

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Re: Population Cap Questions
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2016, 06:13:52 am »

I've channelled stairs every way to which way, rebuilt them, and tried sideways... etc. I'm about to start a new experiment on a slightly larger staircase, 5x6 instead of 4x4, so that I can be sure I'm not imagining things. I don't doubt I'm doing something wrong.
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Mules gotta spleen. Dwarfs gotta eat.
Thisfox likes aquifers, olivine, Forgotten Beasts for their imagination, & dorfs for their stupidity. She prefers to consume gin & tonic. She absolutely detests Facebook.
"Urist McMason died out of pure spite to make you wonder why he was suddenly dead"
Oh god... Plump Helmet Man Mimes!

PatrikLundell

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Re: Population Cap Questions
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2016, 06:30:29 am »

You could upload a save for others (such as me) to have a look at it. Specifying the DF version would help as well.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2016, 06:34:14 am by PatrikLundell »
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