But the emphasis of putting that work in progress in action now and therefore breaking where its not relevant because the personality of the (souls) is already displacing the game units by giving them additional values like being possessed by the archetype soul assigned to units by CIV and the sites that they are settled (for example adopting and following ethics etc
0010059: Wild site animals have the same morale ethics [Kill_Enemy Neutral] as entity units if in the same local settled area)
Pretty clearly evidenced by that
embarked pet troll having its own dreams as per being directly inside the civ, compared to a random natural animal person with exactly the same range of values just because they are part of the site population but no dreams as per not having that civ interaction.
The current soul at the moment other than personality within the civ fields means diddly squat for actual functionality, defending it for future code is pointless when Toady could have kept it on a prototype for the actual magic release or feature when it was being used and put personality in abstractly in a better defined less buggy field.
> I understand the reason why but couldn't toady just wait to give it a trigger (such as a possessed mood or a specific posession magical skill/interaction situationally at the time like the emotion system)
instead of severely shoehorning it to push the functionality of the personality system?
But Putnam, though its not straightfoward to really exactly prove the logic holds up, you CAN assign semi-sapients and animals to the (NONE) profession and they actually revert to standard UI and same functionality as the pre-bug state because its a completely superfluous way of doing it when they are commited to the civ via civ identity & taming state anyway. In friendly tame semi-sapients they will adopt a profession they shouldn't have access to (peasant because of hauling labours) as well as the relevant labour and profession UI which is redundant to them having non malleable skills to set.
> Importing trolls from site population via [PET] causes them to have random assigned professions and skills because they have a peasant tag from within the civ generated for them via allocation, in the same way it sets skills and manages citizens.
> I've already mentioned this before but there is only 1 class of true unit animal and the raws from that population type feed back into entities without apparent code for flag discrimination because normally given the circumstances everything else would be non-considered as sapient. As you mention if everything is being made sentient then that has potential implications, especially in the case that there isn't a failsafe of defining a additional attribute to link it to he intelligent flag only within those raws. All taken for granted for working.
> As you can evidence practically by turning wild creatures/creature-people by simultaneously domesticating them & setting a civ ID, as soon as they are set to the wagon or a meeting area they instantly switch to a peasantry state for both military and civilian exploits and aggressively stick to that idle routine.
> In which case it may be related to bugs within sites for staying within map designed meeting areas (such as where trolls & goblins frequent under dark pits around the namesake in the large rooms) converting or otherwise affecting rooms as per demands by the tavern & temple system to get people to commit to staying in areas. As to say every time a animal interacts and gets caught up with the 'milling building' behaviour it is set to peasantry.
Taken from a beak dog on goblin site as livestock, name, idle and peasantry checks out with what im saying. Idle area is keeping it static therefore it is always engrossed in the peasantry producing idle behavior. Same data as the embarked and idle area engaged beak dogs from my goblin faction embark.
Same with a random milling troll, peasantry, identical to "Scamps the Embark Troll" also has a dreams and was sourced from within the entity.
Finally after hearing my laptop wheeze to near death under the crushing FPS of just standing inside a dark fortress i found who i was looking for, a Troll with a generated job assigned to them when the site reads that they are a peasant intelligent and non animal class.
Its natural to read more into it but i do think this has applications to the wider scope where the logic applies, I've already proved or alternatively established that effects are happening on a site level so my overcomplication is justifiable given the scope of the problem and how far into the systems it could reach.
> Animals for the first field 102 in military profession are listed as peasants, meaning that when they enter active service they will be recruits which holds up with the everything being treated as a sentient by site theory :
0006708: Human civilization's soldier is an Alligator Recruit.> If all animals are counted as sentient population or at-least peasants, armies are going to be constantly busy and fizzle out focusing on sites leading to indecisiveness and ineffective warfare. Elves get picked off quickly in worldgen by megabeasts for this reason because they take animal assimilation very literally, which is methodically re-creatable by increasing the quantity of non mountain caves to give them coverage.
I do respect your input, but
I was right about 'Something' going wrong in those coding areas (though not from the angles i was expecting where we are now) from the beggining as soon as i grasped the game-theory by clawing and tracing the fundamental principles in the code by a little more than just luck even with my poor grasp of what the code does (Important but also relevant when you're not really looking at the fields as much as actually looking at the content). I have to learn code in my own time but there are more immediate problems at hand than trying to teach me, suggesting based that I REQUIRE to know the code to understand what im looking at or im just getting so jumbled up equating to nothing which are both patronising but understandable stances. Im not here to lint the code clean of imperfections, but more to solve a problem, pretty much learning french by reading the pictures and picking them apart very carefully you can still get the main body of sufficient content.
Providing actual research to reinforce would be more helpful please Putnam as mostly your contribution in this thread and the FoTF has been (helpfully constructive) critism and conjecture off principles you are familiar with but never seem to question in a way that is demonstrative given the opportunity to really show your expertise and quickly dispel the discrepencies. It really seems like the sort of thing you'd go for solving in one or two quick searches with dfhack knowing what you're looking for and exactly how to use it and just get it fast-tracked to a easy resolution.
(which ironically some to most of my own points are conjecture but i seek to amend them by actually looking into it and correcting myself where needs be as that just the point of research. And i have been doing so and making good ground, some issues are harder to showcase however and you have to trust and grasp the 'logic' behind the fault)
Important update on dead_dwarf research. I have found a anomaly in which i have harvested a non dead_dwarf flagged corpse of a goblin on a dark tower site, that fell down the item depot pits dropping atleast 10+ layers and must have because they were spawned for the overworld but died in a entirely different feature setting of the caverns by falling through the cracks or otherwise fighting, dodging and falling.
Upon finding it by navigating my goblin adventurer down to the caverns in search of where my site trolls might be gathering to investigate them, i found a plucky "peasant corpse" with still a little meat on the bone. I butchered him after scanning with gm-editor to find his dead_dwarf flag already false, so i took and ate a little meat off him.
So it seems that if the unit dies outside of the site they were spawned from the dead_dwarf doesn't apply unless there's something else going on we're not aware of.
1. Every living creature has a unique, separate soul.
2. All souls always have personality facets and this is intentional.
3. Embarked, tame creatures having your civilization is intentional.
4. Values (family etc.) are separate from facets (HATE_PROPENSITY etc.), stored differently and will take the parent civ's by default, which is intentional.
5. Professions are not the cause of any behavior and are merely ways to organize the unit screen--your problem lies elsewhere.
1. understood, that clears things up, pretty obvious from gm anyway and i kind of didn't need telling such a trivial fact.
2. Yes i am aware but the are all blanketed over in a way that isn't subjective to the creature. (No-drink/no eats craving food etc) its sloppyily executed and perhaps a little rushed for trying to get it on all creatures globally.
3. That wasn't my point, but yes it wouldn't make sense, i already know that, but thats not what im trying to point out if you're following at all, my point is that these are affecting tame animals WITHIN the civ, and on sites. Which when mixed with site behaviours is getting screwy.
4. I know, I've already double checked that in my own examples with looking at the trolls from within and creatures outside having values
5. Not exactly helpful attitude, help us prove or disprove the method if you are sure please.
Author
Topic: Eating Sapients FotF derail. (Read 38994 times)