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Poll

When building traditional buildings, which style of roof do you prefer to use?

Flat
- 35 (77.8%)
Mono Pitch
- 0 (0%)
Gable
- 5 (11.1%)
Hip
- 1 (2.2%)
Dutch Gable (hip then gable)
- 0 (0%)
Half Hip (gable then hip)
- 1 (2.2%)
Mansard
- 2 (4.4%)
Gambrel
- 1 (2.2%)

Total Members Voted: 45


Pages: 1 2 [3]

Author Topic: Favorite Roof Type  (Read 4046 times)

LordKnows

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Re: Favorite Roof Type
« Reply #30 on: November 10, 2016, 11:51:55 am »

I have been wanting to build a stave-church style temple for a while now, but never get going because of the complexities of laying out all the ramps and stuff to make the roofs look right.

They look pretty dwarfy in a way:
Spoiler: stave church (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: November 10, 2016, 11:58:34 am by LordKnows »
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GhostDwemer

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Re: Favorite Roof Type
« Reply #31 on: November 10, 2016, 04:30:25 pm »

I wanted to vote Oignon-Dome but there was no option for it...

Spoiler: Oignon-Dome (click to show/hide)

Ahh, you know? I was going to put that in as an option but I thought "no way, too tricky. Nobody is going to do that in DF." Even a regular dome is crazy hard to do right. You need a program to figure out which blocks to fill, but I've seen people do it. Haha, of course someone has to do onion domes, they are very dwarfy after all.
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chesse20

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Re: Favorite Roof Type
« Reply #32 on: November 10, 2016, 08:41:44 pm »

I wanted to vote Oignon-Dome but there was no option for it...

Spoiler: Oignon-Dome (click to show/hide)

Ahh, you know? I was going to put that in as an option but I thought "no way, too tricky. Nobody is going to do that in DF." Even a regular dome is crazy hard to do right. You need a program to figure out which blocks to fill, but I've seen people do it. Haha, of course someone has to do onion domes, they are very dwarfy after all.
wouldnt be that much harder to make, would just need to add up/down ramps as buildable or just make the roof out of stairs
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GhostDwemer

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Re: Favorite Roof Type
« Reply #33 on: November 11, 2016, 05:39:58 pm »

I wanted to vote Oignon-Dome but there was no option for it...

Spoiler: Oignon-Dome (click to show/hide)

Ahh, you know? I was going to put that in as an option but I thought "no way, too tricky. Nobody is going to do that in DF." Even a regular dome is crazy hard to do right. You need a program to figure out which blocks to fill, but I've seen people do it. Haha, of course someone has to do onion domes, they are very dwarfy after all.

wouldnt be that much harder to make, would just need to add up/down ramps as buildable or just make the roof out of stairs

Have you tried building a dome? I have. It's not that easy to calculate the diameter of each new level and get it looking dome-like. And the onion dome goes out first, before going in, and curves into a point.  What do you use for the underside? Ramps don't look right underneath and there are no reverse ramps that slant outwards instead of in. You've never even done it, you are just speculating from lack of actual experience, or you would have said "It isn't that much harder to make, in my experience." Trust me, it's harder than you think to make one that looks right, and certainly a lot harder than building any of the roofs I included in the poll.
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Starver

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Re: Favorite Roof Type
« Reply #34 on: November 11, 2016, 06:33:09 pm »

Easy enough, even without trigonmetry.  Basic hemispheric dome radius at Z height z above the base is w where is w=√(r²-z²) for r being the desired radius and height1.  Then apply x=√(w²-y²) or y=√(w²-x²). Or both, doing it in octants (±x for each ±y and ±y for each ±x, for the ranges of x|y=0 to x|y=y|x. See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midpoint_circle_algorithm if you want to deal with integers only, for some reason.

For an onion dome, quick emulation suggests that taking as w either the w for a sphere centred around a high/low point (assume that Z is zero), where only within the bounds of one sphere, or the average of both respective w values where they overlap provides a reasonable facsimile of the pinch-point.

For example, radius of 8 at 'roof zero' combined with a radius of 10 at 'mid-onion zero' that is centred 15 Zs up. Doesn't necessarily match some onion-domes at the tip (20 Zs above roof-zero), but depends on how you want to top it. Might need a third term to add to the top half/third of the top hemisphere and up into a spike.

There's probably a better (continuous, non-conditional) function for w=f(z), but for a quick and dirty evaluation the above seems to do Ok at first sight. Tune to your heart's content, though.

1 From z² + w² = r²  - If you want it flatter or higher, add in multiples to z or w inversely proportional to the desired z/w or w/z.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2016, 06:38:44 pm by Starver »
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GhostDwemer

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Re: Favorite Roof Type
« Reply #35 on: November 11, 2016, 07:42:03 pm »

Easy enough, even without trigonmetry.  Basic hemispheric dome radius at Z height z above the base is w where is w=√(r²-z²) for r being the desired radius and height1.  Then apply x=√(w²-y²) or y=√(w²-x²). Or both, doing it in octants (±x for each ±y and ±y for each ±x, for the ranges of x|y=0 to x|y=y|x. See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midpoint_circle_algorithm if you want to deal with integers only, for some reason.

For an onion dome, quick emulation suggests that taking as w either the w for a sphere centred around a high/low point (assume that Z is zero), where only within the bounds of one sphere, or the average of both respective w values where they overlap provides a reasonable facsimile of the pinch-point.

For example, radius of 8 at 'roof zero' combined with a radius of 10 at 'mid-onion zero' that is centred 15 Zs up. Doesn't necessarily match some onion-domes at the tip (20 Zs above roof-zero), but depends on how you want to top it. Might need a third term to add to the top half/third of the top hemisphere and up into a spike.

There's probably a better (continuous, non-conditional) function for w=f(z), but for a quick and dirty evaluation the above seems to do Ok at first sight. Tune to your heart's content, though.

1 From z² + w² = r²  - If you want it flatter or higher, add in multiples to z or w inversely proportional to the desired z/w or w/z.

Nice, very nice. Thanks for pointing this out! Yet, I would have to argue that this is, in fact, harder than simply laying out one of the roof forms I've listed in the poll, which is the reason I left domes out. Is there some equivalent formula for plotting an onion dome? Are they some mathematical construct, or just what looks good?
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Starver

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Re: Favorite Roof Type
« Reply #36 on: November 11, 2016, 08:49:19 pm »

Is there some equivalent formula for plotting an onion dome? Are they some mathematical construct, or just what looks good?
Probably both, given how aesthetic forms tend to follow (or be even better with) a handy formula of some kind.

According to http://aleph0.clarku.edu/~djoyce/ma131/surfaces.pdf (which I discovered only after I wrote the above), for the radius at a given height they use a sin wave of z (or cosine, really depends upon the subjective vertical offset you use) plus one. The tip (where the wave hits -1, thus wave+1 hits zero), smoothly becomes a sharpened spire, and you start two thirds of a wavelength down. The radius at the low point is chosen to match the tower you're capping. (In that example, in radians, z=-(pi/3)..+(pi) and r=1+cos(z), the z-by-r line rotated around the vertical z-axis.)  It looks Ok. Gives you the spike you really need to be onion-dome and not door-knob...
« Last Edit: November 11, 2016, 08:52:28 pm by Starver »
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