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[Persus13]

I thought you guys were making a joke. I didn't realize you were talking about a real game until I followed the link.

[itisnotlogical]

$15 seems a bit much for an early-access quirky physics game, especially given Glloyd's description. Pass, at least until it's on sale.

[Alastar]

I'm really not into being a Nazi though, so I only ended up getting into 4, where's your a US sub captain in the Pacific. I do have 5 somewhere...

Hitler is said to have complained about having a nazi air force, but a conservative army and a communist navy.
I'd also say that playing on the German side is good for merging history and gameplay, things becoming quite tough on German sub commanders as the war progresses.

To me, SH3 only came together with mods though (mostly more realistic interfaces for torpedo calculations).

[JimboM12]

Complicated games, I think i got a couple.

The X series of space sims are both surprisingly simple and complex at the same time. The ingame economy is quite simply:
Raw resource maker (like energy cells and ore)-> Non-complex resource (cloth fibers, silicone wafers)-> Complex resource (Circuitry, advanced foods)-> End product (Mostly equipment).

Gets deep when you need to consider supply lines from your factories and the nearest 'sink'. How many jumps will it take? How many cells if you make them use jumps? Things like that.

Second game, if you consider MMOs, is Black Desert Online. Workshops, nodes, workers, blah blah. It gets complex once you learn how to set up trade routes via nodes and managing workers and workshops and resource collecting.

And I suppose the Paradox Grand strategy games too. Crusader Kings 2, Europa Universalis 4, and Hearts of Iron 4.

Mostly economic complexity but these are quick ones off the top of my head. And yes, I noticed X got talked about earlier but I felt the need to say it again.

[Retropunch]

The X games are awesome, but I always felt I was competing with myself a bit with them. Setting up a factory line and whatever was sort of fun, but why am I doing it? Like there wasn't any goal at the end of it.

Not that things need a 'goal' (DF doesn't have one really), but with DF you will probably eventually succumb to *FUN*, whereas with the X games you just sort of continue getting factories cause factories.

[JimboM12]

Dr.Bullwinkle is a modder who gave me my answer: Emergency Ejection mod. It will dump you out of your ship if it gets to 5% health, with faster boosters and a slightly stronger repair laser.

This one little mod made the game for me, as instead of just sighing and reloading, I instead call one of my backup ships to pick me up and bring me to my fortified system. Or i just scream like a little girl and fly to the nearest gate.

With this sort of EVE loss model, it makes sense to keep a flow of money to replace losses in the fights against the Xenon and Khaak. And I consider these to be my reason for factory building and the real endgame; clearing out the Xenon sectors is just fucking war. They will slam your incoming fleets hard and you need the cash and equipment to rebuild losses. Once you have the player headquarters you then have all you need to make fleets and that is a massive resource sink, unless you build Xenon M6's and lower, cuz those are dirt cheap compared to the regular races ships.

[MoonyTheHuman]

Isn't this new Children of a dead Earth one of those?

Anyway, also:

Space Station 13
Dominions (4) [D
Paper Magic or MTGO
Depending on your flavor, many games fit, like Minecraft, KerbalSpaceProgramm or Besiege
Skyward Collapse

Beseige

[Kazagarth]

Are mods okay for this thread?

Because if so. This stainless steel submod (for Medieval 2) is pretty in-depth/complex.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?106060-BGR-V-20150324-Byg-s-Grim-Reality-(Supply-amp-Command-Series)-Guides-Updates-amp-Optional-Extras

Stainless steel itself is a pretty big mod for Medieval 2. But the submod for it adds a lot more.

For actual games. Dwarf fortress is obviously really complex. X3 which has been mentioned.

Though back to mods. Some Europa universalis mods (like MEIOU, especially when they come out with their next big update) and some Crusader kings 2 mods are incredibly in-depth/complex as well.

[Aqizzar]

Surprised nobody's mentioned "The Viceroy" yet.  Ostensibly its a game about managing an interstellar empire recovering from a nasty reunification.  In practice, it's blind clicking everything on the screen in the hopes that some obscure piece of functionality achieves a given goal without crashing any industries or starving a million people to death.

I bought it at launch and played it for hours, yes hours, without ever managing to complete the first tutorial.  Game is beyond opaque, but I love it because I know there's something special going on.

My summer car.

Imagine car mechanic simulator taken to the next level. Have to tune the carb, tension the belts, align the steering. That's after you assemble a car from scratch, all with little or no hints. Also you have to make money to eat and fuel your rides doing odd jobs with other very well simulated vehicles.

I'm still going through tutorials just to learn how to put motor oil in the engine.

At least I know proper usage of a sauna room now, in case that ever comes up.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

Would you guys recommend X3 heartily? What kind of replay value does it have? I'm thiiiiiis close to buying it, but this talk of no real goal has me a bit worried. Is it a densely populated universe? How's the modding scene???

[Glloyd]

And I suppose the Paradox Grand strategy games too. Crusader Kings 2, Europa Universalis 4, and Hearts of Iron 4.

You missed the most complex of their grand strategy games, Victoria 2. V2 is nice, because you can kinda play it the way you want. If you want to micromanage every single aspect of your nation, push for communism or appoint a government that supports state capitalism if you're an absolute monarchy. But if you just want to sit back and manage military+diplomacy, go for a lassaiz faire economy and let capitalism take the wheel.

[LoSboccacc]

Dr.Bullwinkle is a modder who gave me my answer: Emergency Ejection mod. It will dump you out of your ship if it gets to 5% health, with faster boosters and a slightly stronger repair laser.

This one little mod made the game for me, as instead of just sighing and reloading, I instead call one of my backup ships to pick me up and bring me to my fortified system. Or i just scream like a little girl and fly to the nearest gate.

With this sort of EVE loss model, it makes sense to keep a flow of money to replace losses in the fights against the Xenon and Khaak. And I consider these to be my reason for factory building and the real endgame; clearing out the Xenon sectors is just fucking war. They will slam your incoming fleets hard and you need the cash and equipment to rebuild losses. Once you have the player headquarters you then have all you need to make fleets and that is a massive resource sink, unless you build Xenon M6's and lower, cuz those are dirt cheap compared to the regular races ships.

which X are you talking here?

[JimboM12]

which X are you talking here?

Terran Conflict, but it should also work with Albion Prelude.

I've gotten into X Rebirth again with some modding and I must admit, it's pretty fun. My only gripe is that the Skunk is quite obviously a small M6 so why can't it have a turret or 2? That's literally my biggest gripe with the game otherwise its enjoyable to me now that my PC is stronger then when I bought it (and the patches since then have helped too.)