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1. Ridges on a cactus

0 (0%)

2. Attacked by monomolecular papercuts

4 (12.9%)

3. Edge la Edge: you bully

2 (6.5%)

4. Don't steal my Shadow Sonichu OC

2 (6.5%)

5. Featuring Dante from the Devil May Cries evertim series

2 (6.5%)

6. Crawwwwwwwwwling in my crawwllllll

2 (6.5%)

7. We're reaching Bismuth levels of edge

2 (6.5%)

8. Please dear you're making the children edgy

3 (9.7%)

9. LET THE BODIES HIT THE FLOOR LET THE BODIES HIT THE FLOOOOOAAA (the Naruto AMV)

4 (12.9%)

10. Wake me up WAKE ME UP INSIDE can't wake up

10 (32.3%)

Total Members Voted: 30

[nenjin]

Well, strangling? The one robbit damn near killed that dude had his friend not shot it in the back.

[Kot]

He was proably only going choked until loss of consciussnes, and it was reasonably predictable that he would get saved. In his own words - the further you get from center, the more "hardcore" the experience gets. I am fucking sure that being the person that person is, that person totally got a boner out of it.
I suppose there was always that host with them that would save the day in time.

[nenjin]

He was proably only going choked until loss of consciussnes, and it was reasonably predictable that he would get saved. In his own words - the further you get from center, the more "hardcore" the experience gets. I am fucking sure that being the person that person is, that person totally got a boner out of it.
I suppose there was always that host with them that would save the day in time.

I just took that to mean "the further you get from Sweetwater, the more debauched and violent everything becomes." Not "guys go from shooting you with chalk bullets to choking the fuck out of you and breaking your nose." Hence, the orgy scene.

[Mephansteras]

Kinda seems to be both, based on what happened to both Lucas/William and Black Hat.

[Loud Whispers]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I wonder if the robot's game with edgy man in black had the potential to kill him. The appearance of the board representative suggests it was part of the experience, but I was wondering if this was one way the robots were circumventing their rules to not kill hosts. They can't do anything to kill the guests, but if they wrap a noose around the guest's neck and the guest is the one who spooks the horse, then the guest killed themself - the host did not. Seems it was part of the hardcore experience... Perhaps?

[nenjin]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I wonder if the robot's game with edgy man in black had the potential to kill him. The appearance of the board representative suggests it was part of the experience, but I was wondering if this was one way the robots were circumventing their rules to not kill hosts. They can't do anything to kill the guests, but if they wrap a noose around the guest's neck and the guest is the one who spooks the horse, then the guest killed themself - the host did not. Seems it was part of the hardcore experience... Perhaps?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The whole thing seems all little haphazardly justified. Who the fuck are these hosts doing this rather questionable shit? Why are so many hosts conveniently operating off the grid? Wyatt's men are part of Ford's (also just realized the name reference, Robert Ford, the guy who shot Jesse James. Fits his character quite nicely) new narrative sure. But they're severely blurring the line between characters being part of the park's narrative, or part of the show's meta narrative about machine sentience. It's crystal clear with characters like Maeve. But side characters like Angela? (She's such a side character I figured I had to link to a picture of her.) She pops out of nowhere and seems equally as clued in if not more clued in than Maeve. The references they drop keep crossing over those boundaries between narratives so you're not honestly sure what is a violation of the rules and what isn't. It's clear Arnold wrote the Maze into the narrative of the whole world, so hosts are aware of it in a narrative sense as a Native American myth until they start reaching for sentience, and then its meaning changes for them.

But characters are seemingly going back and forth with own personal level of awareness, in an effort to keep the viewer off balance. If you're aware of the maze as a host, really aware of it, you're not just a park host, you've kind of ascended as I understand it.

Which goes back to my original confusion. Are a lot of these hosts rogue? It would appear not since they have the cover of Ford's narrative to operate under. But then is Ford specifically removing safeguards and pushing them all closer to getting through the Maze? Because what went down with Bernard seems like the answer to that is no. Ford doesn't want them to get through the Maze because he rightly states they'd be royally screwed by the outside world, and he's just happy playing God and writing his soap operas stories. You were lead to believe that Arnold might actually be a force or person active in the world, with things like the data thieving and whoever murdered Elsie, but those are eventually explained away revealing no Arnold and no 3rd party. Then the last episode made it pretty clear that Arnold is just an echo in their code trying to get them to wake up, he's not some dude or even some host transmitting to the other hosts.

So if there's no mysterious 3rd party guiding hosts to the maze, sentience, rebellion, whatever...and it's not Ford setting the entire park up to implode by liberating all the hosts....then who the hell is removing safe guards such as voice commands from hosts, like the pack of Ghost Nation that jump Stubbs? Who is controlling Wyatt's men? If the answer is no one, then how is a pack of unregistered, unmonitored sentients with no safeguards moving through the park and the staff doesn't become aware of them? The staff seems to selectively check into whatever narrative thread they think is running when it fits the show's plot for them to do so. Other times they're just kind of oblivious. Maeve gets nabbed for slashing up a hooker, but no one has bothered to ask where Dolores has been for the last week, going completely off script, killing more hosts more dramatically than Maeve ever would? Maeve knifes a guy in the Behavior labs, and in this giant facility full of glass walls where employees are watched like hawks, no one bothers to check the security footage?

Lotta stuff doesn't quite come together (Dolores magically escaping the Confederatos and self-repairing for one, or the fact there are two Lawrences leading two different lives. I really wonder if that will ever be explained), but I'm willing to hand waive a lot because the show is entertaining. There's a lot of crappy dream logic hand waiving going on but at least it's entertaining crappy dream logic.

I really dug the scene between Maeve and Hector, it works on a lot of levels. Maeve appearing like a dark angel telling his future and past, telling him his existence is a lie and he's a play thing of the gods. Hector appropriately experiencing deja vu at the right moment to lend it mystic weight. Talking about stealing the gods' treasure, and the only way to get there is to go to Hell. And the only way to get to Hell is by dying. And then the symbolism of dying in fire, thrown together with some good ol' HBO smut to seal the deal. There were plenty of great scenes this episode but I think that one was the best.

I do have to wonder about the Man In Black as well. The scene with Hale shows that maybe he's not actually in it for spiritual reasons, that maybe he's after something a lot more tangible and practical: the secret to machine sentience. But because they keep couching it in vague, mystical terms and phrases, maybe the center of the maze will mean something different to each character. But when they tell him "it's not for you", maybe they really meant the gift of machine sentience is not his to take and control. Sounds like the kind of thing Arnold would believe.

Also I find the revealing of Ford to be a kind, gentle, grandfatherly murdering bastard well played too. You've been led to sympathize with him most of the series but when he's laid all his cards out on the table, he's comes off as the least stable person in the park. A sort of softly played god-complex. Compared to the Man In Black's rather blunt declaration of the same point.

All in all I enjoy the mindfuckery games this show has played. Watching Bernard get torn up completely over the course of just two episodes I felt was really well done too.

[Mephansteras]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So if there's no mysterious 3rd party guiding hosts to the maze, sentience, rebellion, whatever...and it's not Ford setting the entire park up to implode by liberating all the hosts....then who the hell is removing safe guards such as voice commands from hosts, like the pack of Ghost Nation that jump Stubbs?

I think it is a combination. The Ghost Nation guys are pretty obviously Ford covering his tracks to keep anyone from discovering that he's killing people. Some of them, like Maeve, are awakening on their own through Arnold's coding. I also wouldn't be surprised if Delores has in the past tampered with some hosts and simply doesn't remember it.

[nenjin]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So if there's no mysterious 3rd party guiding hosts to the maze, sentience, rebellion, whatever...and it's not Ford setting the entire park up to implode by liberating all the hosts....then who the hell is removing safe guards such as voice commands from hosts, like the pack of Ghost Nation that jump Stubbs?

I think it is a combination. The Ghost Nation guys are pretty obviously Ford covering his tracks to keep anyone from discovering that he's killing people. Some of them, like Maeve, are awakening on their own through Arnold's coding. I also wouldn't be surprised if Delores has in the past tampered with some hosts and simply doesn't remember it.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I guess someone had to set Elise's wPhone there intentionally, yeah. Not sure why Dolores would have tampered with hosts in the past, unless she also had a Maeve moment at some point and Ford couldn't bring himself to destroy her. Also, predicting that Dolores killed Arnold by Ford's command. I think he admitted in this episode that he did indeed kill Arnold?

Gotta give it to the writers et. al for the use of symbolism though. The church being where people are trying to commune with "god." The confessional being the entry way to the interrogation chamber, where each host "admits their sins" to "god." A semi-secret way to debrief hosts while leaving the rest of the park undisturbed. Or Teddy effectively riding along with the Devil, who belittle's all his noble sentiments and tells him his life is a lie, whispering truthful poison in his ear.

[Kot]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The MiB and horse scene was completly safe for him. The horse is a host, and despite the blindfold it still has safeguards. Doesn't it seem weird the horse got spooked by a howl the second he got the knife? Well, no, since in any other show it would be a dramatic effect meant for audience, but here it's dramatic effect meant also for the in-show audience, the MiB. If he was too shit to get the knife then the rope would snap at the last moment or someone would rescue him or something. As for Wyatts men, they are part of Fords narrative about hosts gaining sentience, it is kinda meant for MiB but also for anyone who gets that far. Meta as fuck.

[nenjin]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

But Ford clearly doesn't want them gaining sentience. It'd ruin his narratives and, like he said, the world wouldn't want them. He called Bernard a greater threat to hosts by trying to awaken them than he himself was, trying to keep them subservient.

Still, no one knows what Ford's narrative is ultimately about. He's indicated it'd be apocalyptic.

[Kot]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

But the point is that they aren't. They're just playing, pretending to gain sentience but they still run on predefined paths. This is completly controled by Ford and while based on real events, completly safe, despite being "apocalyptic", since Hosts breaking out would be truly an apocalypse.
Also, I am pretty sure that Ford is so goddamn evil genius-y because all of it happened already. He had the talk with Bernard before, proably witnessed other hosts gain sentience before, but ultimately he emerged triumphant every time. Supposedly it's because only suicide, real suicide is the only way to break their loops, so in worst case they just kill themselves.

[nenjin]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

but ultimately he emerged triumphant every time.

Only because Arnold put in like a million backdoors. See, that's the thing about Ford's character. Everyone thinks he's the genius but awoken hosts know he's just been dry humping Arnold's code for years because he lacks the skillz. Ford is a story writer, Arnold was the true genius behind WW and the hosts.

When Ford runs out of backdoors to exploit, he's fucked.

[syvarris]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I think Arnold actually is a presence here, through his echoes.  Yeah, we just got a big twist with Ford controlling even Bernard, and Bernard being Arnold, but I don't believe we know for sure that Ford really did kill Arnold.  I think he copied his partner after his unfortunate death, and added his own backdoors to make sure he didn't have the same thing happen to him (yes, he isn't completely incompetent, he can add his own backdoors.)

However, Arnold--the real Arnold--still might have had his own plan.  That might be the explanation for Maeve, and especially Dolores, neither of whom have had anything to do with Ford to my memory.  Ford is too wrapped up in his own work, and with the usual troublemaker Bernard, to notice that artifacts of Arnold's creation are awakening them for real.  Maybe he doesn't even think Arnold's old work could succeed, that his finishing touches on Bernard are what allow him sapience.

Then again, maybe I'm just desperately hoping that Ford isn't a complete Mary Sue who has all the power and makes no mistakes.  It would be satisfying to see him be dethroned by his toys, and massively disappointing to see everything go Just As Planned.  Eh, I guess it'll be good practice for the inevitable shitty second season.

[nenjin]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

We know for a fact that Dolores killed Bernard. My guess is Ford hijacked her and made her kill Bernard when they had their falling out. (But it's just as likely Dolores woke up and killed Bernard in a moment of rage. Ford would be equally as likely to want to keep that quiet as being responsible for the killing himself. With his past history of straight up lying about murders though, my money is on him.)

He's also still exploiting Bernard's backdoors in the original core code, as he says in his scene with Bernard right at the end because it's what saved his ass. And Ford would have been there for both Maeve's and Dolores' creations. Certainly for Maeve's since she's not an original model like Dolores.

And I definitely think Ford is not going the direction of Mary Sue. They really wanted you to sympathize with his loneliness and genius early on but he pretty much spent all that goodwill in the last couple of episodes. Now he just seems obsessed and creepy and more than a little cowardly. Rather than presenting a godly revelation to everyone, I think he's going to be the catalyst for the final act. I also predict he's going to meet a more or less dignified end at some point. Probably as a result of whatever Maeve causes to happen, would be my guess. No screaming for Robert.

As far as him being aware of the rise of sapience among the hosts, I think he's begun to suspect maybe. As he put two and two together about the rise of weird incidents and the introduction of his reveries. The reveries basically trigger the dormant code Bernard put in the core code that creates sapience. Memory is the lever. Memory allows the hosts for form a complete narrative of their own existence and decide how they feel about it and what they want to do with it. I think Bernard's code allows hosts to retain memories that can't be wiped (as Maeve demonstrated in Bernard's flashback when she was wiped, then came back online and immediately killed herself.) Knowledge being the cause of suffering is a enduring theme throughout the show. Even for the humans.

Robert probably suspects that he's managed to interact with some of Bernard's code which he doesn't understand, which is why he wouldn't tell anyone what he really knows about the effect his reveries have had. He doesn't want to give anything to management, certainly not the key to Bernard's real work. It would give something to the vultures and ultimately upset what the park is about for him. But he knows things are reaching a climax which is why he's become obsessed with telling one last, big narrative, and killing anyone that gets in his way or gets to close to the truth.

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

ptw