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Author Topic: (IC) Feudalism - A Multiplayer Kingdom Simulator (12/10) - Turn 2 (Now with OOC)  (Read 9595 times)

Vivalas

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Re: Feudalism - A Multiplayer Kingdom Simulator (13/10) - We are GO!!
« Reply #135 on: October 31, 2016, 05:45:16 pm »

I'll be happy to take Fallisan's spot.
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andrea

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Re: Feudalism - A Multiplayer Kingdom Simulator (13/10) - We are GO!!
« Reply #136 on: November 02, 2016, 07:03:43 am »

Kashyyk, the direction of villages in the map does not match the description in the holdings spoiler. On the map, durumfield village is in the east, but in the holdings tab you say it is south.
Similarly, emmerfield villages are north and west on the map, but north and east in the goldings spoiler.

edit: by the way, has everyone confirmed actions?
« Last Edit: November 02, 2016, 07:08:06 am by andrea »
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Grek

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Re: Feudalism - A Multiplayer Kingdom Simulator (13/10) - We are GO!!
« Reply #137 on: November 02, 2016, 07:09:43 am »

I've confirmed mine.
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Taricus

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Re: Feudalism - A Multiplayer Kingdom Simulator (13/10) - We are GO!!
« Reply #138 on: November 02, 2016, 07:12:27 am »

Yeah, I have. Though I reckon kashyyk would've posted if anyone had not.
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Imic

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Re: Feudalism - A Multiplayer Kingdom Simulator (13/10) - We are GO!!
« Reply #139 on: November 02, 2016, 07:21:58 am »

Yupski
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Kashyyk

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Re: Feudalism - A Multiplayer Kingdom Simulator (13/10) - We are GO!!
« Reply #140 on: November 02, 2016, 07:47:14 am »

I'll be happy to take Fallisan's spot.

Thanks for the offer, but as this turn is taking a little while to process I'm going to take the opportunity to lower the head count slightly.

@andrea: in that case, the map is correct. I will update the summaries to match.
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andrea

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Re: Feudalism - A Multiplayer Kingdom Simulator (13/10) - We are GO!!
« Reply #141 on: November 02, 2016, 08:42:35 am »

yes, I thought the map would be correct ( mainly because it is harder to modify).
But hey, it was a better post than just writing "bump", wasn't it?   ;D

I imagine the turn is long to write. Your prediction of 2 turns per week always seemed a bit optimist to me, considering the huge number of data and actions. But hopefully as the game goes on and you get used to it ( and we get used to actions) it will go faster.

Do you need any help? making spreadsheets, maybe a better action format?
« Last Edit: November 02, 2016, 08:46:07 am by andrea »
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Aigre Excalibur

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Re: Feudalism - A Multiplayer Kingdom Simulator (13/10) - We are GO!!
« Reply #142 on: November 02, 2016, 08:57:54 am »

This I like.

Actually the way to stop the data from becoming overwhelming might be to use out of forum spreadsheets and notepads from the start.

Ya know... I'll offer to help you make a spreadsheet for this.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2016, 10:27:50 am by Aigre Excalibur »
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Aigre Excalibur

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Re: Feudalism - A Multiplayer Kingdom Simulator (13/10) - We are GO!!
« Reply #143 on: November 02, 2016, 09:31:48 am »

Terminology wise, I think of Serfdom as a system which has the protection of a social contract. Land to rent and farm, in exchange for taxes, labour, the draft, or any combination of the above.

A manor might be able to support a few hundred Serf families... but there would be thousands of labourers -daytalers, farmhands and the like who don't even have the protection of a Serfdom arrangement. More often the Proletariat are the ones shouldering all the real work. And their numbers were easily in the millions, in a country like Britain in the Early Middle ages of around 700 AD.

Comparatively, a warband of 80 warriors during that time was considered an army. If the Fyrd is raised, that would be your serfs with feudal obligations, which add a few hundreds to thousands more men. The folks with no feudal obligations to stand in the battle line are those people doing the actual work - the day labourers and the like who mostly rely on the Serf class for their employment and food. (And it might be fair to say that the proles also didn't give a rats arse what happened to the politics, unless they really loved their masters)

In terms of raw wealth... a Villeinage (In the doomsday book system) is about 80 acres - the size of some commercial farms today. A half Villeinage, 40 acres. To qualify as a Yeoman, one needed at least 160 acres or equivalent wealth, privately owned and not held in fief to the local lord.
In terms of feudal obligations: the richer you are, the more well equipped you are expected to be when you turn up for duty.

Those of the serf class who were destitute would be the Cottars who could have anything from 5-20 Acres, which earns a subsistence. They were more prone to paying their taxes and rents in labour. But at least they had land and a more or less secure way to eat. Unlike the Proles, who were truly miserable.

How we get proles... the same way we get commoners. The parents of Serfs can't keep dividing up land for their children. Second sons and the like get disenfranchised among the lower classes, just as they do in the nobility.

A serf might live like a petty manager compared to the people who work for the serf, which are the ones living in hovels. But the serf has to maintain arms and profits for his Lord.

Unlike what mount & blade might depict, you wouldn't have serfs running away from serfdom. That's probably a confusion of terms, just like how the status of villain is looked down upon. There would be plenty of people who would want to take a serf's place. But maybe a serf might have indentured labourers who feel tempted to run, and the serf might pay some silver to a passing mercenary to catch them.

A serf isn't "free" - but what that meant socially is that he had obligations and duties to his liege Lord. But by extension we can also say that the little Lords aren't "free" either. Both Serfs and Lords were tied to their lands and overlords. A Prole is free. A prole has no liege and owes no one any loyalty. But a prole existed in the same kind of wage slavery that workers today face, if he wasn't outright indentured. And to the Doomsday book of William the Conqueror, they aren't even worth counting as people. (There's too many of em!)

((sorry about the obligatory historical terminology sperg))
« Last Edit: November 02, 2016, 11:08:29 am by Aigre Excalibur »
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Imic

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Re: Feudalism - A Multiplayer Kingdom Simulator (13/10) - We are GO!!
« Reply #144 on: November 02, 2016, 12:53:10 pm »

I am going to outlaw serfdom in the land held by the Greymane family. Everyone should be entitled to freedom.
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andrea

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Re: Feudalism - A Multiplayer Kingdom Simulator (13/10) - We are GO!!
« Reply #145 on: November 02, 2016, 01:52:13 pm »

considering excalibur's post, outlawing serfdom might involve either stripping of their land the whole small landowner class or dismantling the feudal contract.

anyway, the history was quite interesting ( really, it was: thanks Aigre excalibur) but it probably is not that relevant to the game. In the game villeins are meant to be the small landowners and serfs the landless labourer, even if it is not accurate.

Imic

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Re: Feudalism - A Multiplayer Kingdom Simulator (13/10) - We are GO!!
« Reply #146 on: November 02, 2016, 03:19:28 pm »

Dismantling feudalism was my idea, and making it into a place where people can leave the nation unmolested. Also, more villeans.
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andrea

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Re: Feudalism - A Multiplayer Kingdom Simulator (13/10) - We are GO!!
« Reply #147 on: November 02, 2016, 03:28:05 pm »

if you try to dismantle feudalismin the time frame of the game ( 12 turns per year, it is going to last less than 5 years likely), it is going to be quite a mess and I doubt the feudal lord ( you) will reap benefits. besides, the empire would revoke your title in no time, before peasantry gets strange ideas.

Plus becoming a villein is more about holding sizeable land than being free.

Also I don't think kashyyk will let us tap in the endless supply of serfs we have in the game.

Grek

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Re: Feudalism - A Multiplayer Kingdom Simulator (13/10) - We are GO!!
« Reply #148 on: November 02, 2016, 04:15:09 pm »

I already asked, Kashyyk said no.
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andrea

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Re: Feudalism - A Multiplayer Kingdom Simulator (13/10) - We are GO!!
« Reply #149 on: November 02, 2016, 04:37:07 pm »

I asked as well.
It seems that enlisting serfs was such an obviously good idea that all of us had it  :P
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