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Author Topic: Hey so wild semi-megabeasts in fort mode......  (Read 1783 times)

Dunamisdeos

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Hey so wild semi-megabeasts in fort mode......
« on: October 15, 2016, 04:05:59 pm »

Do they breed? If I pack a few into a cell will they make little giants and the like? This is hypothetical and is in no way an attempt to create an army of militarily trained monsters that could then escape and be let loose upon ykno what theres my question lets go with that.
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SebasMarolo

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Re: Hey so wild semi-megabeasts in fort mode......
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2016, 05:04:37 pm »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

First off, yes. They can mate. During world gen, dunno if during fort mode with world activation.

Second, and the reason why it will not work... Distraction. If you leave a giant or an ettin or a cyclops trapped in a room with another of its kind, they'll eventually get distracted from unmeet needs, one of them will go insane and murder the other.

I tried with cyclops. I still cringe from remembering that.
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So uh, yeah you just murdered a until proven otherwise pretty neutral innocent being for no reason.

Dunamisdeos

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Re: Hey so wild semi-megabeasts in fort mode......
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2016, 05:11:17 pm »

Damn. What if I make it so they can't kill each other, maybe with a steel chain? I could make it so they are always within one square of each other but never touch.

I think procreation works within a few squares these days, yes?
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Infinityforce

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Re: Hey so wild semi-megabeasts in fort mode......
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2016, 05:14:53 pm »

If you leave a giant or an ettin or a cyclops trapped in a room with another of its kind, they'll eventually get distracted from unmeet needs, one of them will go insane and murder the other.
I tried with cyclops. I still cringe from remembering that.

Holy FUCK this is SO metal and hardcore. That is both tragic and utterly romantic. And slightly funny. A little horrifying too.

Second, and the reason why it will not work... Distraction. If you leave a giant or an ettin or a cyclops trapped in a room with another of its kind, they'll eventually get distracted from unmeet needs,

Build them a little house with little furniture? lol i dunno
Can we even sate the needs of beasts in fort mode? Is that possible? Is that, like, a thing?

Dunamisdeos

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Re: Hey so wild semi-megabeasts in fort mode......
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2016, 05:25:41 pm »

My current plan is to chain two of them up within one square of each other indefinitely. That way it does not matter if their needs are unmet or if one tries to kill the other. Proximity should be all that is necessary for procreation.
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Infinityforce

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Re: Hey so wild semi-megabeasts in fort mode......
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2016, 05:31:28 pm »

My current plan is to chain two of them up within one square of each other indefinitely. That way it does not matter if their needs are unmet or if one tries to kill the other. Proximity should be all that is necessary for procreation.

That sounds like what a robot would say trying to get 2 humans to mate.

Dunamisdeos

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Re: Hey so wild semi-megabeasts in fort mode......
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2016, 06:03:16 pm »

My current plan is to chain two of them up within one square of each other indefinitely. That way it does not matter if their needs are unmet or if one tries to kill the other. Proximity should be all that is necessary for procreation.

That sounds like what a robot would say trying to get 2 humans to mate.

Well if I could get robots involved, I would. For now it's chains.
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Infinityforce

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Re: Hey so wild semi-megabeasts in fort mode......
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2016, 06:16:07 pm »

My current plan is to chain two of them up within one square of each other indefinitely. That way it does not matter if their needs are unmet or if one tries to kill the other. Proximity should be all that is necessary for procreation.

That sounds like what a robot would say trying to get 2 humans to mate.

Well if I could get robots involved, I would. For now it's chains.

Well of course a robot would say that!

wierd

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Re: Hey so wild semi-megabeasts in fort mode......
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2016, 06:54:53 pm »

Would supplying them with adorabombs (cute kittens delivered from an overhead chute) help keep them from having breakdowns?

Dwarves get small morale boosts from killing things/getting into fights.  Allowing an outlet for violent behavior may keep them sane enough to satisfy their needs?

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Calidovi

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Re: Hey so wild semi-megabeasts in fort mode......
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2016, 07:21:31 pm »

do semi-megabeasts have any non-killing needs?

i know theyd be insane if they did but they already are insane
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Infinityforce

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Re: Hey so wild semi-megabeasts in fort mode......
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2016, 07:26:49 pm »

Would supplying them with adorabombs (cute kittens delivered from an overhead chute) help keep them from having breakdowns?

Dwarves get small morale boosts from killing things/getting into fights.  Allowing an outlet for violent behavior may keep them sane enough to satisfy their needs?



Such as smashing cats?
Life DF is violent and cruel. and whimsical.
Megabeasts have wierd entertainment.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

PatrikLundell

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Re: Hey so wild semi-megabeasts in fort mode......
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2016, 07:40:09 pm »

I've had an invading goblin go crazy from being chained, tantrum and destroy the chain. It might be dangerous with semi megabeasts. However, since a male animal inside a cage can impregnate a female outside of it, you may want to put the male in a cage and the female in a locked room with the cage inside it (I'd lock the room with a drawbridge, on account of building destrying). Make the room 3*3 with the cage in the middle.
If you want to try out the theory but are short of semi megabeasts I'd try it with trolls from the caverns (I think there's something blocking pregnancy for invaders, but if you don't have anything better to do you might try it with invading goblins and trolls).
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Bumber

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Re: Hey so wild semi-megabeasts in fort mode......
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2016, 08:39:20 pm »

do semi-megabeasts have any non-killing needs?

i know theyd be insane if they did but they already are insane
IIRC, even non-sapient animals have a need to worship.
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Hey so wild semi-megabeasts in fort mode......
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2016, 12:35:35 pm »

Semi-sapients breed totally fine on a chain, neutral/wild trolls and troglodytes do so perfectly fine, so a giant with [SLOW_LEARNER] would be ok to breed in that fashion for a batallion of war giants. Specially if you could provide giant-sized (I even in my goblin modification gave giants [EVIL] in the hopes that gobbos might start sourcing giants from nearby caves) clothes and some clubbing weapons to make use of that enormous strength, but obviously not totally impervious as to when you eventually need to stop your giants (unless its a dead man's trigger)

Kill more megabeasts = spawn more giants, pity other-sentient eating doesn't work because giants sound like a excellent source of meat and bones gathered in this way.

Fun fact you can do the same with yeti's to have war-yeti's and artificially boost numbers in endless hunting cycles of creatures being captured = released off map as children and rehunted. Always when you're all set up on a tundra make good practice to capture yeti's, the butchery fur and meat is useful, the more yeti's you have on site the more that will breed (because child caps can only account the number of adults). Yeti's are animals with grasping hands and [EQUIP] so are predictable, just drop things around them and they'll pick it up in a dangerous situation rather than equip them with stuff (though a way to manuallly re-equip prisoners in a cage would be nice)

All animals sapient or not that are live birthed on the chain via forced methods will make a break for the map edges because their AI dictates that they don't miss their migration slot (not sure on megabeasts though because they dont wander back off and away) and because of marriage checks, they will likely not breed if fully sentient. Fully sentient semi-megabeasts don't like furniture that wasn't made from their little self inclusive 'entity' (though mounds have none, they are sort of a invader type think of it that way) so they'll sleep on the floor and are more likely to go insane. By all means try and go ahead putting down a small room and a bed for them it'd actually be interesting to see once they are on the chain.

(I've never had the luxury of trying out my methods on two live intelligent sexually compatible megabeasts)

Leaving the male in a cage adjacent to the female would be safer than them beating each other up, you can purposefully wall them in so they have forced exposure.

R+W+R
++CCW
R+W+R


Restraints (R) for beasts in range of a central male cage (C), on the opposite side you have walled (W) in restraints with 1 tile space of movement where they are always within 1 range of a cage and cut off with partitioning walls.

Whether you want to use 3 cages in the middle with partitioning walls or perhaps leave the 3 spaces free really depends on safety measures. Herbivores for example and non-aggressive non-raging animals like antelope/musk ox caught and 'wild bred' in this way are perfectly fine, and their offspring will try to escape through your cage traps that you should have put (If its not first terrified and fleeing, catching a baby megabeast given that its not being nurtured by its mother could be difficult if it breaks open your cages/restraints)

High quality metal/artifact chains are preferable for preventing intelligent tantrums, semi intelligents dont tantrum without traits and therefore can be downgraded, i would still recommend based on strength relying on metal chains for giants. A troll or a ogre in size and strength is really the limit pushing it as far as i'd apply a tethering rope.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Hey so wild semi-megabeasts in fort mode......
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2016, 02:16:31 pm »

As far as I understand, tantrum destruction of chains is independent on the chain strength. My goblin destroyed a metal chain (copper or bronze, I don't remember which), and according to what I've read, creatures do not break restraints through strength checks, so tantruming would be the only way. Still, if it's a single male and a single female (you normally don't get droves of them, and I've never gotten two of the same species) I'd skip the chain altogether and just release the female from a constructed lever hooked up cage in a 3*3 room with the male's cage in the middle. Obviously you'd use a raising bridge rather than a door...
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