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[vonsch]

This one is a self-challenge, one-axe orc fort.  And no trading with orcs.  At all.  But trading with other races is okay, if they will trade.  Not that their junk is worth trading for.  Who wants crappy goblin or white tigermen weapons when there's good orc bloodsteel?

Can we survive?  Can we prosper?  Can we raid the Mork out of everyone and make those orcs snobs that threw us out envious?

Yes we can!

Year 150
Year 151
Year 152
Year 153
Year 154

[Fleeting Frames]

Hm, the ordering seems off? You have later updates before earlier ones, I think.

- no alligators, because it is near ocean, not because it is temperate. Alligators need freshwater or brackish river. (or wetlands, I think?)

Crocodiles are the ones who need tropical

- Do the raids in MWDF actually hurt other settlements?

- I recently learned that for booze-drinking races, not using well can be superior because taking water from water zone is instant while well has delay, and if you're using a bucket for hospital no bad thoughts about lack of awell, and for others you're in trouble anyway and need alcohol soon, well or no well.

- Without a pick (can be gotten from trading, bonecarving mood or visitor, maybe) the only way to get fire-safe things is from magma sea creature remains on a volcano (ash bar is fire safe), or migrants hauling from a previous fort (depending on when the fort was retired/abandoned).

...Well, gizzard stones may be fire-safe, but can only make windows from those.

- Room quality with just wood.....You'd need 7 masterfully-designed and masterfully-built screw pumps to make it royal, 26 for overlapping. Or with current skills, more like 234 fine components and finely built and designed pumps.

- recuperation...heh. I usually go for disease resistance due infections.

- To off liason would need a pair of doors, perhaps. Lock in-between, then drop rocks or pour water to finish.

- Heh, sounds like you found the OP trade good of MWDF orcs

- boulder crab ? Oh ic. Unusual bit of modding.

- A dwarf captive? Yeah, the ordering got messed up.

[vonsch]

The ordering is Imgur playing games with me.  I can't tell from my end because the ordering is always wrong on my end when I look at my posts.  But when someone else does they are (usually) right.  Maybe I'll figure out a better blend of forum and Imgur eventually.  Sorry.

The raids don't hurt others, no.  In the last version they could provoke a response though.  That was more fun.  That mechanic hasn't been restored since the 2014 update to DF.  Things changed.  Or dfhack functions not yet recreated.

I find the opposite.  Well is only slow if it's very deep (as in caverns.)  Drinking from river is slow.  Drinking from well on river is fast.  Only races that NEEDS alcohol in MWDF, that I know of, is dwarves.  It's a positive for some though.  Bad for bolds.  Slows them down.  They have tea and juice instead.

Decent medical care prevents infections, mostly.  My experience anyway.  Soap.

Yeah, door would be easy way to set up a trap on liaison.  Have mechanisms now so could do it more easily.  But ignoring him is fine.  For now.

Yeah, don't recall why those were added.  They are a means to get some stone slowly though, in situations with none.  I didn't remember them because I never use them... or they were in the animal pack Meph just added back in between this version and the last one I played.  Still, with no orc trading they would be a lucky event more than a strategy.

Dwarf captive was plan A'.  Those come from raiding and raiding was the plan.  What I didn't realize, though it was a later part of the raid plan, is that orcs can't melt things into bars (as far as I can tell.)  All they can do is convert weapons into 'makeshift' weapons that are orc sized, and not as good, or dump armor into the molten pit and get back some boulders of malachite, bars of potash, and... something else.  Or convert the armor into something orc-sized too, but with missing coverage.

But as you'll see in next year (or one after), no real reason to bother since orc tribal stuff is pretty good.  Not top end, but between iron and steel on the whole.  And making it uses orc natural skills that they have no penalties for developing and that are more common among migrants.

Thanks for commenting.  More coming in a few.

I do like writing things up as I play, at least part of the time, as it makes me think about things in a more organized fashion.  But a bit of interaction with other players is fun too.

[vonsch]

We have blocks!

I love it when a plan comes together.  Even if with a twist or two.  Maybe better if with a twist or two.

Year 151

[Fleeting Frames]

 - I see about well. Didn't consider drinking from right there as main mode of drink. That makes sense    

 - What is Xen Infector *wonders*

- Yeah the outpost is sprawling.

- Why three thick wall? Aesthetics?

- Ok the underground is also sprawnling. Like in heavens above, so down in the earth.

- 19...nice number. Better have werebeast defence up, those can climb and come through the water.

- Does the ocean have an aquifer? Usually ocean has at least some ores or clusters to dig through to  bypass it.

- Huh, the raiding ports don't have to have to be built over water. Do they require ocean biome at all?

- Wait do the orcs actually have preference for greens in the raws?

- Yeah killing people for their goods is more fun that just picking it up :v

- The depot moved again.

- glass blower? Hm reminds me of how I tend to go for native gold over gold for furniture. Second stretches out gold but first takes more workshops.

- could burrow the kids somewhere they won't eat much fps and wont claim beds. For complete sealing needs food, or making them into vampires though.

- what population are you aiming for?

[vonsch]

Never dealt with infectors before myself, but their description makes them sound like a sort of were.  Except permanent, not on the monly cycle.  Body snatchers.

I tend to do dwarfs compact and vertical, but more sprawling seems more orcish.  So I do more horizontal and with less depth.  Underground IS easier though.

Three thick just looks good.  Don't usually bother though.  Does make constructing them taller easier though.  I haven't ever had a were climb a wall.  So far.  Swim in, yes.  That well is insecure.  Need to fix that soon.  But lucky so far this game, as will be evident soon.

Aquifer issue coming up in next years commentary.  Map says there's one in ocean biome.  I like aquiducts for wells, and for challenge, but they can also be very annoying. 

Raiding ports don't require water of any fort.  They could have been called raiding bases and set up with something other than longboats to make them a little more "realistic."  Since they can go in deserts.  I have a self-imposed rule that if I use them they require some sort of water feature bigger than a brook.  And I always put them close to the water.  Usually I have a bridge as the way into the water too.  Probably will add that here.  It's why I put it one tile off the water.

Nah, green is just RP.  Be interesting if they did prefer green things in RAWs though.  No real way to know what will look green in game since that's a separate thing from RAWs.

I move depots a lot until I have a real gatehouse built.  It will stay where it is until it's time for a last move into it's final place in a few years.

Not aiming for any particular population, but generally go past 100 a little at least.  More than that are just idlers.  I rarely manage to keep 60 or so employed.  I tend to go narrow and elite on military rather than broad and militia-based.  Usually. Elite are more fun for me.  Combat reports tend to be shorter too!

Were-challenges coming up.

Oh, I tweaked the first album.  I hope that got the order right.  I also think I figured out how it happens.  When dragging and dropping images into Imgur, it doesn't always put them at the bottom.  Keeping an eye on that now as I add them.  Not sure I trust what I see when I reload the albums though.  In the past I've gotten reports the order is right when to me it's not.

[Fleeting Frames]

At glance, first album seems ok to me now.

Not sure what myths orcs use in MWDF - tolkien's are closely related to elves, building towers and smithing instead of forests. But with bonus to leatherworking instead of armoring, that doesn't seem to be inspiration.

What will look green in game, without a tileset, isn't separate from the raws, though there's some approximation going on.

[vonsch]

I think MW orcs owe a lot to Games Workshop, but those probably borrowed heavily from Tolkien too.  There's a bit of samurai thrown in, don't remember offhand of GW did that or if it's Smake's addition.  I don't think they're considered related to elves, but may be wrong.

Think the colors are set in the MWDF launcher for many things, but now sure how far down into the guts those go.  Malachite is green the way I am set up though, just checked that.

Fighting some crashes now, not sure what's triggering them but they've set me back three times this afternoon.  Starting to get back into my "save every time I designate more that a bit" mode.  Saving often and getting closer to where it crashes also helps home in on the cause, if it's regular.

This MAY relate to the orc traders.  Happens right about the time they leave.  May have to exterminate them all and autodump destroy all their goods and see if that fixes it.  Assuming it happens again when I hit that date.  Last two crashes it happened as I was typing, which closed the window instantly on me  and I couldn't see the date in time to note it.  Nothing showing in error log that I can see either.

Will get year 152 up today though.  Into 153 when it crashes.

[vonsch]

Some weres come to visit.  A terrible fight between our were and another were.  Where? Out there.

Year 152

[Fleeting Frames]

-Sounds like you went through several large clusters.

Microcline, for instance, can be found inside stone aquifers.

- Dancing forest spiders? Eek, that's really dangerous wildlife.

Looking at that shot, seems you're using dfhack's locate and digv.

- I see, glass as metal? Unusual

- Hm, seems you can improve raiding, much like you can improve glass from green to clear and crystal.

- How good is mithril anyway?

 - melting returns nothing? Ouch

 - Can you actually lose orcs on raids?

 - Thats lot of bars in a loot. Only bars, it seems?

*counts*

215 bars?‼

Can compete with dwarves, perhaps.

 - Impressive kobold pops. In vanilla, I never have them get more than 5% of goblin pops after a millennia (unless goblins were killed out). They can occassionally conquer sites, but those still don't show up in neighbours and tend to have very low pops.

Meanwhile, your elves are closer to my kobolds.

 - impressive stats indeed.

 - could have  forbid the wood for iron amulet. Not useful either way.

 - With the forests, it is worth it to do log hauling with minecarts or minecarts inside minecarts (1 fits 12, each of which fit 10). Unless orcs don't use minecarts? At the end I see they do.

 - Can the elf or dwarf starve if the workshop is not used?

 - crippled dreamwalker versus werebeast. Could have gone worse.

werebeasts drinking needs are reset when transforming.

At least their leg will be healed if they survive.

Welcome back, Lat. Someone who doesn't need to eat or drink and has doubled physical stats can surely be useful. Right? ...No? RIP Lat.

And no, he isn't a vampire. Wouldn't be able to be were then. It ages, yeah.

- Green glass bed! Neat. One of the few ways to get  green bed in vanilla.

- Looking at overview, it seems like there's just 2-wide gap to jump over into fort in the SW. Still open to river, I guess.

- I usually put trade depot almost as near as kitchen or forges as posssible (with just hatch to lock down in-between).

- demands....I guess obliging nobles does provide a challenge.

[vonsch]

I use digv.  It's bound to ctrl-v (I think, it's automatic for me) by default in MWDF.  Cuts down micromanagement when mining.  I already micro mining a lot.  Don't use locate though.  Not even sure what it is.  I try to avoid reveal too.  Always a temptation.  Especially when demands are involved.

Mithril is a little better than steel for armor, as I recall, and much lighter.  So easier for low armor skill military to move in it, and can pile on more coverage on more experienced ones.  For weapons it's not as good as steel, I think, or the better glasses.  Or candy.  Not that I use candy much.

I was wrong about melting.  It must have been a streak of bad luck with RNG.  I tried it in controlled fashion with copper armor last night to compare it to molten pit and got back bars from smelter.  But maybe the brass cannon balls don't melt.  That would make sense.  I mean, they're explosive...

But the molten pit SHOULD return more on average with low quality junk.  One chunk of malachite makes multiple bars.  And rusty iron needs a lot of processing to turn into plain iron.  Plus there's the potash and dolomite.  Both useful.  Both could be very helpful in some situations.

No actual losses of orcs on raids.  It's just a reaction.  I guess it would be possible to have a low chance of killing the building operator, but that's about all I can see maybe working with the current available mechanics.  That I am aware of.  Could drop a boulder of something deadly at close range.

Loot is dependent on the race and place raided.  Can see the reaction to open the loot ships and the odds of different things.  Merchants are good for random prisoners and coind and bars of gold and silver.  Dwarves for iron and steel, with a chance at some weapons of sorts, etc.  In last version, could provoke an invasion of the target race too.  That was cool.  More loot.  Assuming you could handle them.

The kobold pops are due to this specific world gen setup Meph came up with.  The other one I usually play has fewer.  This one tends to have bog bold pops.  Tends to be hard on elves though.  And sometimes dwarves.  Partly it's a geography thing.  Partly it's also what optional races are chosen.

I don't usually micro artifacts.  Not even sure on the timing in forbidding any more.  Mostly they go into display cases to bump room values.  So I don't really care THAT much.

Pop is big enough now to burst haul logs fine.  They haul them to the pile just inside fort, then when that's full I can stop outside access and make them move it all down to qpile.  Repeat.  I think most heavy logging done now anyway.  Probably will buy logs in bazaars.  Orcs us up lots of logs.  Especially building with ash blocks as we are this time.  Raiding is a constant drain, as is making lamellar.  I use wheelbarrows with weaker races to speed it up.  Don't use minecarts for much but qpiles, though I keep meaning to.  Have done some minecart killing machines in the past.  And a bit of stone hauling using tracks.  Oh, do use them to move magma.  May do that here at some point to put factory to magma fuel.

The captive workshops are just buildings.  Though the ghetto overseer building can convert a captive into a real citizen of that race.  They can even do jobs, I am told.  We'll try that soon.  Have a human and elf we could free. 

Yeah, I had my fingers crossed he'd die before he transformed because I knew he would heal then, and become sated.  No such luck, but turned out okay.

I was eyeing that gap too.  Most things won't cross it, but... it's now closed.  Did some digging to remove that little penninsula too.  It was a navigation hazard to outgoing longboats!

I usually have a trade goods qpile about 3 tiles from depot too.  Just not set up yet.  But here trading is not all that useful so may leave it a bit farther off.  Incoming goods are more of an issue than outgoing due to the respective values in this situation.  Buying cheap junk, selling expensive junk.

That was an annoying, but ended up sorta fun, demand.  He's finally forgotten about it so could steal his status for somewhere else, but it's fine there.

Is it worth trying to use a were for something as it is with vampires?  I think the risks with weres is much higher.  Vampires might kill one, but they won't cascade things, at least aren't as likely to.  I just haven't messes with weres much beyond killing them as cleanly as possible.

[Fleeting Frames]

 - locate-ore: https://dfhack.readthedocs.io/en/stable/docs/_auto/base.html#locate-ore

Basically, get either list or 1-tile painting of a given ore (which you can follow up with digv, I guess).

I myself tend to use the vanilla "automining gems/ores" as far as dig designations go, after discovering them. Discovery occassionally aided by reveal nowadays, but on thin places with prearranged volcanisms there's not much need beyond initial prospect all due material layering, and I feel the rooms are more clear without using it.

 - Smelter melting doesn't have RNG or quality dependence, at least in vanilla - you get what you get every time, though items usually don't return what was put in - can be more, can be less, can be less than 1 bar.

I dunno about what molten pit does, though.

 - Hm, raiding penalty...Well I suppose it could throw that boulder at range to simulate artillery. But perhaps most realistic would be raiders picking up a disease from far-away place. Of course, Uruks have good disease resistance.

If it was only about what civilization was in range, perhaps it could cost you in their trade profits with them, thus provoking war just like with caravans being lost.

- I recall MWDF also has lot stronger bolds. Specialized natural skills, caravans, trade, better than wood weaponry and such.

- I like microing artifacts, myself. The timing for this particular one is when they've begun construction - and at least 1 item must remain used for it's construction. Allowed me to once replace rose gold pick with iron one (would have been steel, but I hurried rose gold production two seasons before it's need)

- without a forest, I think best way to get logs in vanilla is through forbidding stocks of it with trade caravan? Goatmaan uses that in 40.19, at least. Haven't tried myself yet, but should  beat a tree farm, though is less independent or colorful.

- Oh well on captive workshops. Thought one could manage something with using a <dwarf cage> as reagant.

- Heh, yeah, trading is a bit different this time around. Do orcs have mountainhome equivalent?

Though that would require trading with traitor orcs.

- Weres are still capable of stat growth, so that's interesting (though I've heard mention of that being bugged, i.e. still present for vampires). Also, healing helps to deal with serious threats, such as TheFlame52's BastionGate's anti-demon squad.

Still, I've looked into a full-were fortress and concluded "unreasonable rebuilding". My primary use for them would be in the realm of things like sand and especially clay collection, as well as explorative mining and perhaps handling things with syndromes, with perhaps on non-time-sensetive lever pulling. If you're going to separate your minecart quarry tracks from cats anyway, could block out a werebeast as well.

It's a bit different in community fortress where real-time and game time have different equivalencies, I guess.

(Of course, if you have lot of werebeasts, then there's an application of modification of Larix's infinity clock or some other mechanisms to unlock a bridge with levers marked "pull it now/R !" and another mechanism to drop them down from it's range to be released in a week. Could make for an interesting challenge, though I don't trust the purple jobs enough for this.)

[vonsch]

I do use prospect all.  That tells me the level to prospect on, which is usually enough.  Then I just do a grid search.

Yeah, true on smelter in vanilla.  Not really sure how much Meph has tweaked that, if any.  But I know Smake is using some percentage changes in the reactions on raiding, for example.  So assumed (quite possibly incorrectly) that may apply to the smelter.  But that's a vanilla shop.  Not syre how much those can be tweaked.

Molten pits shows percent chances in the reactions.  20% chance of 1 malachite and 10% chance of another.  So from 0-2, weighted heavily towards zero.

Trade penalty would make sense, but not sure how that could be implemented to not provide free stuff.   Unless there's a variable somewhere relating to caravan losses that could be adjusted appropriately.

Yes, player bolds are different.  Not sure how that applies to them in general.

Yeah, "hiding" logs stock (via forbidding) would work with trade caravans.  But easy to get them from bazaar in this case.  Get the lumberjack drunk!  Sort of.

Not sure on the mountainhome for orcs analog.  The times I've played them (quite a lot) I've kept my forts lowish in population.  Orcs have been nerfs a bit on the military end but are still combat beasts.  Don't need a lot.  And keeps fps snappy.  And fits the raid base image.  Maybe we'll find out this time.  I think I have had a thane or something once into what would be baronial range were we dwarves.

Yeah, basically a separate were area would work.  With a drop shaft system to get things in and out.  They could do any sort of production if they do get skill gains and keep them, else manual junk labor.  Hmm, have to try that some time.  A military would be pretty risky.   Suspect they would have to have separate areas too.  Berserk means kill everything.  Even other berserks.  As we saw.

Could use them to clear caves.  Or map outside.  Just make them a home outside walls, lock them in until needed, then let them out to tackle megas, or die trying.  Problem is getting them into those places before they inconveniently go berserk again.

I think they'd rather destroy levers than pull them.  This could pose a problem if you needed a lever pulled badly when they are scheduled to go, or already gone, berserk.

Fun to think about.

[Fleeting Frames]

That's what, 1-7 nothing 8-9 1 malachite 10 2? Average return would be 0,4 malachite, or 1,6 bars. Better than best smelter, if riskier if you only have a bit.

Levers are safe as they're considered traps - they're not really berserk, just buildingdestroyers. But yeah, can't be timing-dependent. Last time I ran into such werebeast situation was in DF together, but that map got abandoned in favour of current partial terrifying glacier-volcano mountain.

[vonsch]

Trader goes gory on asp and Ologs prove to be baby factories, in...

Year 153