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Use Windows and love it

7 (63.6%)

Use Mac and love it

1 (9.1%)

Use Linux and love it

0 (0%)

Dual-Boot and love it

1 (9.1%)

Hate my life, operating systems, keyboards, the internet etc.

2 (18.2%)

Total Members Voted: 10

[Max™]

Ubuntu is weird in that it works in a basic sense reliably, but it winds up being a kludge when you want to step out of that comfort zone.

I've broken shit on my main install before, but it was deliberate stuff like trying to completely remove and switch to a different window system, had to hit up the man pages from the barebones terminal to reinstall a lot of shit, and definitely prefer sticking with ethernet or certain combinations of proven wifi+distro sets.

Really for most people looking to help their parents, I don't see a reason they need something besides a chromebook. It handles updates automatically, it'll let them do the shit they want, various newer ones can use android apps natively now.

I can get android .apk instances running on my system if I want, but I'm comfortable being presented with a system where all I can do is log in and get:

[thefunk@archenstein]$ _

From which I can diagnose and repair a broken system, having done it a few times now when breaking my own system.

I wouldn't expect my mother, much less my step-mother, to have a hope of doing that, but they both get their phones just fine.

[Infinityforce]

eh *sweat* I didn't realise I was rambling so much.

It seems that whenever I try to get my Ubuntu install to do something it doesn't already do, it breaks something else worse. The thought of trying to help my parents with a Linux computer is quite terrifying, and I don't understand why you want to put anyone through that pain.

It's not the technologically ILLITERATE i'm trying to save, but those yet to be, children being weaned on desktops and youtube, young people who live on the pages of wikipedia, understand their OS and try to change it. For the future is theirs, and we hold it in our hands.


Yes, Linux has faults, but that's because most hardware is optimised for (e.g.)Windows and there is no real standard.
Linux has to get all that shit to work without infringing software copyrights, such as drivers, on devices which were never intended for that use.
Quite impressive, actually.
P.S. If there were support for Linux, more hardware would be optimised for it, and there would be better standards instead of "guess the hardware" that linux currently does.

And I'm not trying to call apple/windows evil....
But, please, correct if i'm wrong at all here.

Apple:
-Uses specific software (iTunes) to interface with device. Literally cannot use any other software to do this. Have any kind of problem with this software? tough luck, because that's the only way. Any other way is expressly forbidden, disallowed or disabled. There is no other option. Creepy.

-Uses specific builds of computers, tablets etc. Makes and sells specific chargers, cables, headphones. Prices are higher than industry standards and equivalents. Does not provide extra function per cost, it's just markup (read: profit)

-Does not allow you to install custom data, or modify software contents. Requires "jailbreaking" etc. Poor software compatibility for 3rd party developers (for example). Restricts content too.

-Want apps? Better get used to the apps developed solely for this platform! Open-source? What's that? If it's not Apple, it's not available.

-Bought any apps? Your next device better be an iPhone or iPad! There's no choice. Just more Apple products. If not, you lose your data and purchased apps. Tough titty pal.

-Broke your headphones? Lost your charger? Looks like you'll have to buy another Apple^TM product at an inflated price! That, or a knockoff, which admittedly is not a bad option, and probably preferable.

MOST IMPORTANTLY
-Want to use something other than Apple products? Goodbye countless expensive chargers, headphones, time spent learning the software, library of exclusive apps, etc. because that's all USELESS WITHOUT MORE APPLE PRODUCTS.
-The more you buy, the more invested you are. The more invested you are, the more you buy. It's SICK, quite frankly, and there's no way out, except to stop supporting the companies that use these tactics.

Windows is more of the same, but more "friendly" and less "aggressive".
It's basically been around so long that people don't know what else exists, and are just too dang comfortable, familiar etc. to change.

@Miauw62
I know, I sound quite dumb saying "you'll be lucky if it works" but what it really means is this:
"you'll be lucky if it works, because that kind of information/power is not normally in the hands of users"
in this case meaning: your computing experience is down to luck/other people rather than your own skill, expertise or ability.
Your knowledge of the software won't help much, unless you know how to hack the mainframe from clicking the GUI.
I didn't mean "it doesn't work" I meant "if it does/doesn't work, it's probably nothing to do with you"
Why is linux better than "luck"? because "with sufficient skill, determination, effort, coding, knowledge etc. you can possibly change it" (not "luck")
I realise I wasn't very clear.
HERE, HAVE AN UPDATE VERSION! NOW WITH 50% MORE CONTROVERSY AND PAINFUL TRUTH!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

WINDOWS
A computer. The world needs computers.
LINUX
A way to use computers. The world needs ways to use computers.
WINDOWS
You'll be fortunate if everything is in working order, because you're not allowed to tamper with it.
LINUX
If it's not in working order, you can fix it because it's in the power of users to fix! We can modify anything!

MAC
An accessory for a lifestyle. Supported by a complement of products.
LINUX
A way of creating a lifestyle. Can be installed/modified for a range of products.
MAC
If it works, you'll be sorry, because now you're locked into using our software!
LINUX
If it doesn't work, don't worry, because there are loads of free source alternatives and you're free to choose!

[Max™]

Dude, the next generation has moved on man.

The days of this being the bleeding edge:

Code: [Select]

                            _________
                           /         /.
    .-------------.       /_________/ |
   /             / |      |         | |
  /+============+\ |      | |====|  | |
  ||C:\>        || |      |         | |
  ||            || |      | |====|  | |
  ||            || |      |   ___   | |
  ||            || |      |  |166|  | |
  ||            ||/@@@    |   ---   | |
  \+============+/    @   |_________|./.
                     @          ..  ....'
  ..................@     __.'.'  ''
 /oooooooooooooooo//     ///
/................//     /_/
------------------

Are over, you can take my keyboard and monitors from me when you are finished pulling whichever weapons I had handy out of your neck, but for a growing chunk of people our age and older, plus basically everyone younger, this is the way to go:

[Infinityforce]

Dude, the next generation has moved on man.

The days of this being the bleeding edge:

Code: [Select]

                            _________
                           /         /.
    .-------------.       /_________/ |
   /             / |      |         | |
  /+============+\ |      | |====|  | |
  ||C:\>        || |      |         | |
  ||            || |      | |====|  | |
  ||            || |      |   ___   | |
  ||            || |      |  |166|  | |
  ||            ||/@@@    |   ---   | |
  \+============+/    @   |_________|./.
                     @          ..  ....'
  ..................@     __.'.'  ''
 /oooooooooooooooo//     ///
/................//     /_/
------------------

Are over, you can take my keyboard and monitors from me when you are finished pulling whichever weapons I had handy out of your neck, but for a growing chunk of people our age and older, plus basically everyone younger, this is the way to go:

Okay. You got me.... I was just angry before, but now I see I am ranting (pointlessly, endlessly) in the wrong direction.... I feel regret for being foolish, remorse for being insensitive. I didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings. I just want to stop the vicious cycle that has claimed the free world.
When I think of how people fight, kill, rob and steal over mobile phones, and how mobile phones are marked up by up to 600% of manufacturing cost, it makes me want to smash the system. Hulk smash system! But Hulk morally wrong. I apologise.
 I'm not happy, but I can't disagree with the truth. GG everyone. May your OS make you happy. And may Open Source prevail over the oligopolistic infidel scum. Amen.

[Max™]

Well, android isn't totally open source at the end user level, since many phones include their own proprietary stuff, but it starts out that way, and there is still a linux kernel underneath it!

[Infinityforce]

Well, even Mac is Unix based... but then again, that's like saying Esau and Jacob had the same father!

[Max™]

Well, more like if someone took Jacob's brain out, dropped it in a different body, and asked if it was still Jacob, if you said "kinda?" you wouldn't be too far off.

[itisnotlogical]

eh *sweat* I didn't realise I was rambling so much.

It seems that whenever I try to get my Ubuntu install to do something it doesn't already do, it breaks something else worse. The thought of trying to help my parents with a Linux computer is quite terrifying, and I don't understand why you want to put anyone through that pain.

It's not the technologically ILLITERATE i'm trying to save, but those yet to be, children being weaned on desktops and youtube, young people who live on the pages of wikipedia, understand their OS and try to change it. For the future is theirs, and we hold it in our hands.


Yes, Linux has faults, but that's because most hardware is optimised for (e.g.)Windows and there is no real standard.
Linux has to get all that shit to work without infringing software copyrights, such as drivers, on devices which were never intended for that use.
Quite impressive, actually.
P.S. If there were support for Linux, more hardware would be optimised for it, and there would be better standards instead of "guess the hardware" that linux currently does.

And I'm not trying to call apple/windows evil....
But, please, correct if i'm wrong at all here.

Apple:
-Uses specific software (iTunes) to interface with device. Literally cannot use any other software to do this. Have any kind of problem with this software? tough luck, because that's the only way. Any other way is expressly forbidden, disallowed or disabled. There is no other option. Creepy.

-Uses specific builds of computers, tablets etc. Makes and sells specific chargers, cables, headphones. Prices are higher than industry standards and equivalents. Does not provide extra function per cost, it's just markup (read: profit)

-Does not allow you to install custom data, or modify software contents. Requires "jailbreaking" etc. Poor software compatibility for 3rd party developers (for example). Restricts content too.

-Want apps? Better get used to the apps developed solely for this platform! Open-source? What's that? If it's not Apple, it's not available.

-Bought any apps? Your next device better be an iPhone or iPad! There's no choice. Just more Apple products. If not, you lose your data and purchased apps. Tough titty pal.

-Broke your headphones? Lost your charger? Looks like you'll have to buy another Apple^TM product at an inflated price! That, or a knockoff, which admittedly is not a bad option, and probably preferable.

MOST IMPORTANTLY
-Want to use something other than Apple products? Goodbye countless expensive chargers, headphones, time spent learning the software, library of exclusive apps, etc. because that's all USELESS WITHOUT MORE APPLE PRODUCTS.
-The more you buy, the more invested you are. The more invested you are, the more you buy. It's SICK, quite frankly, and there's no way out, except to stop supporting the companies that use these tactics.

Windows is more of the same, but more "friendly" and less "aggressive".
It's basically been around so long that people don't know what else exists, and are just too dang comfortable, familiar etc. to change.

@Miauw62
I know, I sound quite dumb saying "you'll be lucky if it works" but what it really means is this:
"you'll be lucky if it works, because that kind of information/power is not normally in the hands of users"
in this case meaning: your computing experience is down to luck/other people rather than your own skill, expertise or ability.
Your knowledge of the software won't help much, unless you know how to hack the mainframe from clicking the GUI.
I didn't mean "it doesn't work" I meant "if it does/doesn't work, it's probably nothing to do with you"
Why is linux better than "luck"? because "with sufficient skill, determination, effort, coding, knowledge etc. you can possibly change it" (not "luck")
I realise I wasn't very clear.
HERE, HAVE AN UPDATE VERSION! NOW WITH 50% MORE CONTROVERSY AND PAINFUL TRUTH!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

WINDOWS
A computer. The world needs computers.
LINUX
A way to use computers. The world needs ways to use computers.
WINDOWS
You'll be fortunate if everything is in working order, because you're not allowed to tamper with it.
LINUX
If it's not in working order, you can fix it because it's in the power of users to fix! We can modify anything!

MAC
An accessory for a lifestyle. Supported by a complement of products.
LINUX
A way of creating a lifestyle. Can be installed/modified for a range of products.
MAC
If it works, you'll be sorry, because now you're locked into using our software!
LINUX
If it doesn't work, don't worry, because there are loads of free source alternatives and you're free to choose!

Maybe people don't use Linux because Linux evangelists are aggressive and condescending, and when asked why people should use Linux the response is "Think of the possibilities!" as opposed to a feature list or superior software.

[Max™]

Yup. My biggest problem is, if you are a good fit for switching to linux, you probably already have.

If you have older hardware coughing it's last fits on Windows 7 or older, you should definitely be informed of the wonderfully light and friendly to older hardware spins available, but even a full-fat version like the KDE I'm using is only sitting at 1.57 GB/8 GB ram use and generally under 1% CPU when idling with no real care paid to controlling either.

Those cases are fewer and ever further between with the presence of stuff like chromebooks, Lenovo 100S and the HP 11 G5 offering good ~$150 (first one) to ~$200 (the latter w/touchscreen) options for them. Chromium OS is kinda sorta linux, a bit more linuxy than android is, but easy. I passed my old netbook turned linuxbook to the missus, she loved it but hated the netbook limitations, and loved the fact that she didn't need an external cooling system for her chromebook, it's getting older, gonna get her a new one (of those two above probably) and pass her c720 on to her mom, why mess with success?

Basically: if you have an older computer, hard drive in particular, which was a windows system but has started to give up the ghost or even possibly died flat out, linux is hands down the best recovery option around, since you can access your files and such to copy and transfer them to another drive if nothing else, but they make USB bootable recovery distributions just for that so basically if you're using it and think "man, this is a neat setup, if only it had..." then you should try out a full LiveUSB version of another distribution, from which you can generally install and so forth.

If you want a specific feature, take whatever the cost of a legal version of W7 or W10 or whatever would be, and spend that elsewhere? Helps my budgets when I'm doing builds without a lot of cash available, being able to make a couple of ticks upwards in CPU or RAM instead of spending it on the OS is nice... I mean I could, obtain one of those other OSes if I felt like it, but meh, why bother?

[miauw62]

@Miauw62
I know, I sound quite dumb saying "you'll be lucky if it works" but what it really means is this:
"you'll be lucky if it works, because that kind of information/power is not normally in the hands of users"
in this case meaning: your computing experience is down to luck/other people rather than your own skill, expertise or ability.
Your knowledge of the software won't help much, unless you know how to hack the mainframe from clicking the GUI.
I didn't mean "it doesn't work" I meant "if it does/doesn't work, it's probably nothing to do with you"
Why is linux better than "luck"? because "with sufficient skill, determination, effort, coding, knowledge etc. you can possibly change it" (not "luck")
I realise I wasn't very clear.
HERE, HAVE AN UPDATE VERSION! NOW WITH 50% MORE CONTROVERSY AND PAINFUL TRUTH!

Jeez, talk about missing the point entirely.

Most people have no computing expertise and really i dont see why everybody *should*have more than a basic familiarity with computers. I know the basics of electronic circuits and central heating, but nowhere near enough to solve a problem, while both of these things are quite central to modern life. If something goes wrong, you call an electrician, somebody from the company that installed your central heating, or somebody from the computer shop.

If we assume your points are true, Windows is rightfully the most popular OS. It "just works" for the vast majority of people. Yes, there is a reason as to why driver support on Linux can be flaky. But it's not an excuse. That's a negative of Linux compared to proprietary OSs.

And even then, fixing stuff on Windows is far from impossible. I've done it a lot. And even though it's sometimes impossible, at least you won't run into ten year old bugs in software that you're using that nobody has fixed or has any plans of fixing...

[SirQuiamus]

I am not hopeful. I am DETERMINED that it should take over. I want it to be the case that Linux should win.
I want lil' David to slay Goliath. I want to see GNU smash the brains of those who oppose freedom, all over the world.
I want the blood of Microsoft to run green with the $$$ that it hemorrhages.
I want Apple Mac to severely rethink their strategy before saturating the market with their monopoly of products, appeal-to-base-instinct tactics, trying new and different marketing techniques until, finally, they are exhausted before the might and possibility of OPEN SOURCE, slumping to the ground, defeated and starved, for all their products and software, unable to raise a hand to snatch the last buck from the hand of the last fool ignorant enough to buy apple.
I want competitors to be deterred, frightened, shivering in their offices and ruing the day that OPEN SOURCE was born.
I want them to CRY. And more than that, I want the innocent to cry too. I want them to cry out of happiness! Out of gratitude! Salvation! FREEDOM!
I want to educate every single person who fucks over the economy and state of affairs of the world: "There is an alternative and it is called OPEN SOURCE!"
We can develop, change, we can throw off the shackles of corporate parasitism, and we can embrace, support and fund a new way. A free way. An open way.
I may not be high-tech, but I can fight with the words of my mouth, and the keyboard, and my heart, against injustice.
Truly, we wrong ourselves.

If only people knew about "purchasing power" and "voting with your money" they would no longer fund greedy pigs who run the hyper-inflated market.
What kind of world is it where mobile phones experience a markup of more than 100%, as standard, and free software is ignored?
I for one, cannot live in that world. I hate that the economy, and technological lives of so many people is ruled by currency, and not efficiency.
People work so hard, and there is so little. It's just another straw on the camel's back. But not on my back.

@Naxza : I initially wasn't sure as to the meaning of your image. I first thought you were calling me a keyboard warrior (i.e. fedora wearing is associated with internet white-knights and such) but then I realised "Oh! Fedora is also an OS!" :p
Th-that's what you meant, r-right?

@Frumple : Sorry for the rant. I don't see it as "linux master race" but as "windows/mac inferior race" (goblins and kobolds, versus dwarves, even)
I'm new to Ubuntu, but it's relatively pain free, user friendly, and internet manuals abound with a friendly userbase. and WINE also does a great job of- er- not being an emulator.
Okay, it is somewhat technical, but that promotes and encourages understanding and better users (I hope) and if it came down to it, I'm sure that something like Android could also be developed for user-friendliness. Since it's open source, that makes it all the more possible!
Just look at all the versions on tablets and smartphones in china, for instance.

I severely doubt that it will take another three decades. A decade seems more reasonable.
More importantly, if more people switched over to Linux, it would take much less time to develop than even that.

This is some kind of a parody, right?

Okay. You got me.... I was just angry before, but now I see I am ranting (pointlessly, endlessly) in the wrong direction.... I feel regret for being foolish, remorse for being insensitive. I didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings. I just want to stop the vicious cycle that has claimed the free world.
When I think of how people fight, kill, rob and steal over mobile phones, and how mobile phones are marked up by up to 600% of manufacturing cost, it makes me want to smash the system. Hulk smash system! But Hulk morally wrong. I apologise.
 I'm not happy, but I can't disagree with the truth. GG everyone. May your OS make you happy. And may Open Source prevail over the oligopolistic infidel scum. Amen.

You're not hurting anyone's feelings, you're just doing a phenomenally bad job at promoting the thing you're excited about.

I've been an enthusiastic Linux user for over a decade now, but your posts really made me want to uninstall it from all of my computers and go buy a cartload of Windows 10 licences.

[flame99]

Frankly, Linux will never take over the world in its current state because of two factors: Ease of use and software support. No matter how much you like Linux (I love it, personally), you have to admit-it just doesn't explain itself well. Yes, your average person on Ubuntu will never *need* to open the commandline, but if you aren't using it, you'll probably be faster on Windows anyways. Even if you do learn the commandline, the documentation still reads like the mad ramblings of a hermit prophet.
Additionally, it just doesn't have the software to back itself up. Linux is like a perfectly crafted house, as beautiful as could be and stronger than any other, but nobody knows how to open the door and everyone just has to crawl through the window. Without more software, including useful office programs, general software, and yes, games, it simply won't overtake Windows. Windows has had an army of developers making stuff for their platform for ages now, and most of them have at least heard of Macs so they aren't completely out in the cold, but Linux is relatively hard to develop for and support, because you can't rely on the same libraries and the same OS tricks. What might be a one-line solution because of some Windows-only header becomes a nightmarish mess of code on Linux.

Unless something dramatic happens, and Linux gains readable documentation, intuitive functionality, and a hell of a lot more software support, it won't take over the world. It can't. I would love it, so much, if it did, but it has a long way to go until it's good for the public consumer.

[Infinityforce]

This is some kind of a parody, right?

You're not hurting anyone's feelings, you're just doing a phenomenally bad job at promoting the thing you're excited about.

I've been an enthusiastic Linux user for over a decade now, but your posts really made me want to uninstall it from all of my computers and go buy a cartload of Windows 10 licences.

1. The real parody is that software giants and faceless corporations rule the world, and the thing it parodies is the human spirit. This is not a joke, it's the fate of the free world, and I happen to live in it, so excuse me for being passionate (read: annoying)

2. Glad I didn't hurt anyone's feelings. I wasn't trying to promote Linux, I assumed most of the people who came to this thread would be Linux users.

3. Err. Okay. I'm glad.... you feel that way.....? In any case, your strategy seems to be well thought out, so, yeah, if you feel like doing that, go ahead. I realise my style is a lot more vehement than what most people are used to, but I didn't expect anyone to convert to Linux (or to Windows!)

Jeez, talk about missing the point entirely.

Most people have no computing expertise and really i dont see why everybody *should*have more than a basic familiarity with computers. I know the basics of electronic circuits and central heating, but nowhere near enough to solve a problem, while both of these things are quite central to modern life. If something goes wrong, you call an electrician, somebody from the company that installed your central heating, or somebody from the computer shop.

If we assume your points are true, Windows is rightfully the most popular OS. It "just works" for the vast majority of people. Yes, there is a reason as to why driver support on Linux can be flaky. But it's not an excuse. That's a negative of Linux compared to proprietary OSs.

And even then, fixing stuff on Windows is far from impossible. I've done it a lot. And even though it's sometimes impossible, at least you won't run into ten year old bugs in software that you're using that nobody has fixed or has any plans of fixing...

Fixing Windows is not impossible, but users are not allowed to access the meat of the OS. There are things that users are not allowed to do.
At least in Linux, you (or someone more skilled) can access whatever they like and make a solution. If there is a ten-year old bug, you could at least have the opportunity to fix it yourself. Linux users make their own luck.
I understand that not everyone is so skilled, but at least the possibility exists in Linux.
In any case, I didn't mean to "miss the point", and you seem to have more experience in these matters than me, so please just excuse the "dumb shit" coming out of my mouth.

Maybe people don't use Linux because Linux evangelists are aggressive and condescending, and when asked why people should use Linux the response is "Think of the possibilities!" as opposed to a feature list or superior software.

That was really not the purpose of this thread.
Although I DO want support for Linux, I very much more want support for Mac/Windows to decrease.
In the same way that if people want freedom to reign, they have to remove terrorists, greedy bankers, corrupt politicans.

In addition, I never made claims of superior software.
A prostitute may be better at sex than my wife, but I love my wife more, because she cares about my freedom (Linux), and is not after my money (Windows/Mac).

[Max™]

I feel like I should say that makes linux sound like a slut, and comment about marriage being at least in part a financial transaction, but the better half may hit me.

[Truean]

Ok, just disclosing, I'm not a computer expert.

Can somebody make a system that works, isn't evil and is compatible with other systems?

This is probably a much bigger task than I realize. It can be a two level system with an "expert" and an "end user" interface. If somebody could do that with the basic "sell it outright and not a license or as a service model," then they'd be rich and beloved.

The idea of a computer operating system that could do these would bankrupt technology titans:
A.) Open, edit, and be compatible with other systems / documents;
B.) Be safe enough and / or repairable if it's hacked;
C.) Allow for a reasonable amount of user customization;
D.) Not be "as a service" but outright ownership with no "licenses;"
E.) and widely used."

Subscription service is the stupid fever dream of a finance major living off his family's money. If you want a stream of payments, then make the product cost more with features to justify it. Same deal with the upgrading / buying new versions. Minimize bloatware and do elegant systems requiring minimal resources instead of constant expansion. Lean operations (in terms of resources).

If one of you manages that, you'll be the richest person on earth, without gouging people.