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Author Topic: Advice for a returning player?  (Read 2000 times)

miauw62

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Advice for a returning player?
« on: October 07, 2016, 02:35:09 pm »

I haven't played since .40, but recently I got the urge to play again. I am vaguely aware of the changes in the newest version, like taverns and libraries and visitors and such, but I was wondering if anybody had any advice or guides for catching up.

(Also maybe some advice on how to set up proper magma smelting, a military, and to which extent I should use minecarts, since I've completely neglected them until now.
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they wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the raving confessions of a mass murdering cannibal from a recipe to bake a pie.
Knowing Belgium, everyone will vote for themselves out of mistrust for anyone else, and some kind of weird direct democracy coalition will need to be formed from 11 million or so individuals.

wierd

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Re: Advice for a returning player?
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2016, 02:55:34 pm »

I did the same thing. 

I just dove in, and had !fun!

There is a bug with libraries.  The scribes won't copy things more often than not. The zone cannot share furniture with a designated room, and every so often you need to forbid and uforbid all the books, scrolls, and quires to get copying going again. 

Taverns are havens for lazy dwarves. They spend all their time in them, but you need them or performers will just stand around when they visit.

Dwarves now have spiritual needs, and need temples to pray and sorhip in, or they get "distracted".

Temples, libraries, and taverns are created in the " i" menu, and are sub options for "meeting zone". 

In addition, it is now possible to specify creation of the kind of statue you want, the kind of craft you want, and even size of clothing or armor you want in workshops with the (d)etails option.

Undead no longer have smellovision concerning living things, and no longer seem to just beeline for the fortress door when they arrive on the map. They will mill around the edges like other invaders now.

That's about all I have seen so far.
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GhostDwemer

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Re: Advice for a returning player?
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2016, 02:57:18 pm »

first: http://dwarffortresswiki.org

The best way to use minecarts is quantum stockpiles. Make a feeder stockpile, a two tile track with a track stop set to dump at one end, onto a single tile quantum stockpile. Set a route that takes from the feeder, goes to the track stop, then returns. Everything from the feeder gets dumped onto a single tile. It's very good for FPS. Other than that, use them to transport things long distances, or as a weapon.

Magma smelting: the best way to do this really depends on your location. There are several ways to go about it, they break down to "bring the dwarves and ore to the magma" or "bring the magma to the dwarves and ore." It depends on how far down the magma is, and where it comes from (tube or sea.)

Military: At it's most basic, just get the best armor and weapons you can, put some dwarves in a squad, and let them train. See the military section on the wiki for more details.

New stuff: Each of these is a "location" and can encompass more than one room or meeting area. They all need constructed chests or bags in them, like the hospital does, for holding stuff that is used at that location. Create a dining room and assign it to a tavern location, designate any old area as a meeting are and assign it to a temple location, create a meeting room with bookcases, tables and chairs in it and call it a library.

Make musical instruments for use in the tavern or temple, make blank books or scrolls for the library, make goblets for your tavern. Musical instruments are procedurally generated, different for every civ. Parts can be crafted at a craftsdwarf workshop or smithy, then assembled at the craftsdwarf shop. To write books, you need to assign a scholar to your library, cook up ink from ash at the kitchen, grind up plants at a quern or mill, press them into sheets at a screw press, make scroll holders or quires and book bindings at the craftsdwarf workshop. Assign a scribe and he will copy books that have been written, either at your fortress or that you've bought from merchants.

That's the basics, but see the wiki for more details.
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Fleeting Frames

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Re: Advice for a returning player?
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2016, 01:39:24 am »

"to which extent I should use minecarts"

Such an interesting question.

The biggest cost to minecarts is time spent learning to use them and then implementing that learning.

Otherwise, the list of things that cannot be improved with minecarts, in terms of game time ...Well, it is so short that a reasonable question for anything you do is "how do I add minecarts to this".

Ultimately though, the ways I use minecarts can be classified into "storage of things", "horrible murder", "transport of things and fluids", "power, logic, timing & machinery" and "transport of dwarves" from most to least used.

If what you're doing doesn't fit into any of those 5 categories....It can still probably be improved by adding minecarts. Still, most of things in DF fit into those categories.

PS: Derecommend booze/goblets/tavern keepers/performers in the tavern. Overuse of booze (i.e. more than what is taken when thristy) can kill both directly, or by starting fatal-punching fistfights in the heart of your fortress. (In truth, I think the minimum you can get by for fulfilling the needs is zone designation on dirtfor tavern/temple + single book lying on ground for library, though if you don't make the library citizen only the book will likely be stolen by visitors.)
« Last Edit: October 08, 2016, 01:48:43 am by Fleeting Frames »
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miauw62

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Re: Advice for a returning player?
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2016, 08:31:40 am »

Thanks for the advice!

For military I was really looking as to how I can actually have my dwarves consistently use armor, and actually be effective in combat.

For minecarts... They just seem really cumbersome and confusing. They feel like I need to design my fort around them...

Also, is it possible to have a multi-level tavern? My food stockpile isnt part of my tavern because I always keep it on the z-level under my dining hall...
« Last Edit: October 09, 2016, 08:46:38 am by miauw62 »
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Quote from: NW_Kohaku
they wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the raving confessions of a mass murdering cannibal from a recipe to bake a pie.
Knowing Belgium, everyone will vote for themselves out of mistrust for anyone else, and some kind of weird direct democracy coalition will need to be formed from 11 million or so individuals.

Purdurabo

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Re: Advice for a returning player?
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2016, 12:05:25 pm »

Multi-level taverns are fine and you can even assign rooms on the other side of the map to the tavern. Just don't put any dwarfs as innkeepers or performers in the tavern or you will end up with fights and dwarfs dying of alcohol poisoning.
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Urist McShire

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Re: Advice for a returning player?
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2016, 12:22:29 pm »

Thanks for the advice!

For military I was really looking as to how I can actually have my dwarves consistently use armor, and actually be effective in combat.

For minecarts... They just seem really cumbersome and confusing. They feel like I need to design my fort around them...

Minecarts I only use for quantum stockpiling of things like logs, stones, bars, cloth, thread, leather and such. You know, the things that will be created and used repeatedly in the construction of goods.

As far as the military goes for dwarves consistently using armour, it's pretty simple when you really look at it. You go the military screen and the uniforms page. You design a uniform for the dwarves to wear (the full plate uniform (which is heavy, so ensure your dwarves have good Armour User skill) I usually go to being mail shirt, breastplate, cloak, helm, gauntlets, greaves, high boots, shield, and weapon, with the material usually being the best I currently have available), and make it so that they replace their clothing with their uniform and they have to have exact matches (also ensure that you have enough of each piece of armour for your dwarves). You can then go to the equip page, select a squad, key over to your new uniform and press SHIFT + ENTER to assign it to the entire squad. By default your dwarves will now always be wearing this uniform, even when inactive, so long as you have enough armour pieces for your squads to equip them. You can also assign colours to the clothing made with cloth if it's dyed, so you can have different squads with colour-coded uniforms like marksdwaves wear emerald green sheep wool cloaks and copper crossbows and macedwarves have red giant cave spider silk hoods and silver maces.
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GhostDwemer

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Re: Advice for a returning player?
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2016, 07:32:36 pm »

Multi-level taverns are fine and you can even assign rooms on the other side of the map to the tavern. Just don't put any dwarfs as innkeepers or performers in the tavern or you will end up with fights and dwarfs dying of alcohol poisoning.

I see people making this claim, yet it isn't in the wiki. Have you actually witnessed it happen, or did you just hear about it from other people?
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Fleeting Frames

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Re: Advice for a returning player?
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2016, 10:51:42 pm »

I see people making this claim, yet it isn't in the wiki. Have you actually witnessed it happen, or did you just hear about it from other people?
There's been lot of screenshots of dwarves drowning to death in tavern, and reports of fistfights causing inter-fort punchfests (which do not normally occur, if you've run a fort without one).

Just search for it :v  Here's one of the latter that I have in history, off the top of my head

WanderingKid

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Re: Advice for a returning player?
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2016, 11:13:15 pm »

For minecarts... They just seem really cumbersome and confusing. They feel like I need to design my fort around them...

You don't.  Minecarts are a means to an end, like any other tool, such as spike traps.  They are really useful in some cases.  I typically wedge some minecart use in just about anywhere I need, particularly if you're playing with timers for said spike traps.

They are a powerful tool, however, when used well.  Just ask the undead who kept invading FurnaceClans. XD

For starter uses, though, some thoughts:
A single tile dump to a quantum stockpile.  The minecart doesn't even need to move or be on a track for this.  Just sit it on a dumping track stop.

A small powered run through magma to manually haul carts full of magma up near your metal working region near the top of the fort.  Quick and easy way to get magma forges near the dining hall.

Thief Locator.  Put a minecart on an endless loop in the shortest way into your fort.  Now traffic restrict that to R so no dwarf ever goes in.  Goblins ignore this setting.  Squishie Goblin.

You CAN get ridiculous with minecarts, but there's no real reason to until you're comfortable with them.  There's a number of simple tasks you can do with them, like run lumber from the surface to the underground woodcrafter's, without getting too deep into the process.  Just remember to use traffic designations.

Evans

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Re: Advice for a returning player?
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2016, 02:57:29 am »

For starter uses, though, some thoughts:
A single tile dump to a quantum stockpile.  The minecart doesn't even need to move or be on a track for this.  Just sit it on a dumping track stop.
No. use regular quantum stockpiles, not dumping zones.
For stone and wood for example I sue:
XXX
XXX|\[]
XXX

Where X is a feeder stockpile,  |\ is a track stop set to dump to  [] - quantum stockpile set to take from links only.
you place minecart at the track stop and set it to dump instantly and take from feeder stockpile.

I use dozens of such stockpiles all over my fort and they work wonders.
In the above set up I can add 5 wheelbarrows for the purpose of stone hauling for example.


Multi-level taverns are fine and you can even assign rooms on the other side of the map to the tavern. Just don't put any dwarfs as innkeepers or performers in the tavern or you will end up with fights and dwarfs dying of alcohol poisoning.

I see people making this claim, yet it isn't in the wiki. Have you actually witnessed it happen, or did you just hear about it from other people?
You can assign rooms to the tavern regardless of where the room is.
I usually do that in my games, assigning rooms on multiple levels.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2016, 03:02:00 am by Evans »
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getlost.lua # How to get rid of tavern guests
function getlost ()
   local unit = dfhack.gui.getSelectedUnit (true)
   unit.flags1.forest = true
end
getlost ()

WanderingKid

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Re: Advice for a returning player?
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2016, 05:37:48 am »

No. use regular quantum stockpiles, not dumping zones.
For stone and wood for example I sue:
XXX
XXX|\[]
XXX

We're saying the same thing there, just FYI.  I used a poor term for dump.

Lozzymandias

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Re: Advice for a returning player?
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2016, 06:42:34 am »

Learn about needs. They are an exciting new form of irritation.
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miauw62

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Re: Advice for a returning player?
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2016, 04:17:54 pm »

Yeah, I've noticed my assigned miners getting frustrated at not doing a craft. But I'm not ready to have all my dwarves start making crafts yet, I'm currently creating too much wealth via masterwork furniture as is...

And honestly, I can hardly figure out hauling routes :P

I'll make another attempt at a minecart quantum stockpile, since my first attempt was foiled by the new job priorities (I had my mason assigned to mechanics too, but he was too busy making furniture to ever build the stop.) And then maybe I can make stockpiles to haul ore to the forges or something.

Also, how would I assign a *stockpile* on a different Z to a tavern?

I also never thought of having my dwarves wear their armor at all times. Pretty clever! Although military seems to be a little bit easier now that I have random soldiers petitioning to stay at Silverpassions.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2016, 04:23:01 pm by miauw62 »
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Quote from: NW_Kohaku
they wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the raving confessions of a mass murdering cannibal from a recipe to bake a pie.
Knowing Belgium, everyone will vote for themselves out of mistrust for anyone else, and some kind of weird direct democracy coalition will need to be formed from 11 million or so individuals.

Urist McShire

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Re: Advice for a returning player?
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2016, 04:26:30 pm »

Random soldiers will petition to stay, but you still need to put them in a squad and assign them a uniform. They will arrive with their own weapons, but not their own armour, so you will also need to ensure that they have proper sized armour for them, like if they happen to be human, they will need armour that is sized for humans, which you can determine by pressing 'd' when you have the job to forge the armour highlighted.
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