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Author Topic: Wargame: Red Dragon (war game + RTS = the ultimate geeky mil-sim)  (Read 23635 times)

Burnt Pies

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Re: Wargame: Red Dragon (war game + RTS = the ultimate geeky mil-sim)
« Reply #46 on: October 10, 2016, 10:01:33 pm »

I'll get you next time! You and Anvilfolk too! *fistshake*

Playing against people who had a fair amount of SEAD and good defensive helicopter use really highlighted the weaknesses of that deck (Lack of non-radar offensive AA). Should probably have taken my E-Bloc for the delicious Strop 2.
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umiman

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Re: Wargame: Red Dragon (war game + RTS = the ultimate geeky mil-sim)
« Reply #47 on: October 10, 2016, 10:06:16 pm »

I'll get you next time! You and Anvilfolk too! *fistshake*

Playing against people who had a fair amount of SEAD and good defensive helicopter use really highlighted the weaknesses of that deck (Lack of non-radar offensive AA). Should probably have taken my E-Bloc for the delicious Strop 2.
Yeah, the Tigres really annihilated any push you tried to do because of your lack of offensive AA.

We were actually yelling in chat that you didn't have any AA haha.

Anvilfolk

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Re: Wargame: Red Dragon (war game + RTS = the ultimate geeky mil-sim)
« Reply #48 on: October 10, 2016, 10:24:22 pm »

Hahahah!

I'm not not surprised a 1v2 match went in the direction of the 2... I totally panicked when Xardalas dropped and suddenly I had way too many things to look at! I sucked really bad :D You should've heard Umiman laughing when he realised that push of yours on the mountains (your right, I think) had lost AA coverage ;D



As for SEAD, my Blue Dragons deck has all of 3 plane cards in it. One is the KF-15 something or other, ASF+SEAD, but pretty good at both those roles. That's what you saw providing CAP around our troops a lot. It's really nice that I didn't have to micro it in order to make SEAD work. In fact, I don't think I saw SEAD happening at all, but I'm glad it did! :P

My own radar AA was doing a good job until I forgot to turn them off, I think :P

Question, did my A2G do anything against you, or was it just an annoyance? I decided on relatively low value A2G planes (70 and 90) with some AP and some HE capabilities. Not sure whether it's working out!

Also, what infantry did you have in Foxtrot? Jesus, those things were taking out prime tanks at RANGE.


Thoroughly enjoyed the match despite flailing desperately :)

Xardalas

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Re: Wargame: Red Dragon (war game + RTS = the ultimate geeky mil-sim)
« Reply #49 on: October 10, 2016, 10:41:30 pm »

Sorry about dropping from the match! The cooling pad on my laptop had gotten unplugged and I hadn't noticed right up until my laptop overheated and shut itself off.
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Burnt Pies

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Re: Wargame: Red Dragon (war game + RTS = the ultimate geeky mil-sim)
« Reply #50 on: October 10, 2016, 11:00:33 pm »

Probably RBS-56 in Foxtrot. 2275m range, which is the same as modern tank cannons, 50% accuracy and a 26 AP, HEAT warhead. It's honestly quite short ranged for an AT missile, most are 2450 or 2625, with occasional longer ranged one mounted on a vehicle or heli. It's one of the few toys the Americans don't get, having to make do with the exceedingly lacklustre Dragon on their ground troops, though vehicles do at least get TOWs. Other Blufor nations do get better infantry missiles, though; the europeans have a selection of Milans, Swedes got the RBS, Japan's got the Chu-Mat. Redfor's got Fagots (It's a missile. honest), Faktoriyas and Konkurs all over the place, too.

I noted the A2G coming in, but I think most of what they managed was scratch damage, I don't think you got a strike dead on target to do much more.
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Digital Hellhound

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Re: Wargame: Red Dragon (war game + RTS = the ultimate geeky mil-sim)
« Reply #51 on: October 11, 2016, 04:19:17 am »

I never seem to be online the same time as other people. Maybe today!

I don't mind single player, though - in fact I've been having a blast (re)playing the campaigns. Finally finished my 2nd Korean War campaign, and man, it was a wild ride. The scenario starts with you fending off overwhelming force from the north, and I've never been more thankful for K1s. The beautiful ol' things shot up anything that so much glanced at my defense. Once you've beaten back the initial invasion, you start getting more and more NATO reinforcements until you've got more top-of-the-line units than you can handle. The Battle of Pyongyang was an awesome mess of like twenty different types of infantry and tanks from nearly every nation to choose from. This against an enemy of like a dozen different regiments - and with the map really not favoring the attacker, I never got a conclusive victory there. I fucked up and slowed down towards the end of the campaign, though, and was kept a province away from all the campaign goals. Still, it was a very fun campaign.

Also did Bear vs Dragon yesterday, but failed to take the second goal (I was also a province away from it - noticing a theme here?) as my conquest of Vladivostok dragged on. It had cool moments like a desperate naval landing and sneaky grab at a land entrance zone, which elicited a response from the enemy of oh my god i've never seen so many tanks that rolled towards my command unit... only for me to unleash all the tanks that had been waiting for an open land connection. Biggest tank battle I've ever seen in the game - sounded great too thundering around in my headphones.

A better player could've beat all these campaigns pretty easily, I'm sure, but I have a habit of advancing only gradually on the battle map until I'm in the position to deliver a killing blow... which tends to mean many battles over a region and that I'm too slow to win the campaign.
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Anvilfolk

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Re: Wargame: Red Dragon (war game + RTS = the ultimate geeky mil-sim)
« Reply #52 on: October 11, 2016, 08:48:59 am »

I think we seem to be mostly around evenings EST! :) Check out the Discord channel (in the OP) and feel free to ping folks for games by typing @username and a message. Folks that have been playing are myself, Xardalas, Noobish and Umiman!

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Re: Wargame: Red Dragon (war game + RTS = the ultimate geeky mil-sim)
« Reply #53 on: October 11, 2016, 10:04:26 am »

I mioght not be around to much in the evenings anymore. My work finally opened up now that the hurricane has past. Maybe on my day's off.
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Xardalas

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Re: Wargame: Red Dragon (war game + RTS = the ultimate geeky mil-sim)
« Reply #54 on: October 11, 2016, 10:42:00 am »

Looking for match if anyone is up for one. I'd love to play a game or two before work.
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misko27

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Re: Wargame: Red Dragon (war game + RTS = the ultimate geeky mil-sim)
« Reply #55 on: October 11, 2016, 11:09:06 am »

You know I bought European Escalation way back when, and I enjoyed that even if I struggled sometimes to grasp what to do.

Then I actually got Red Dragon together in a bundle a few months ago. I need to install it and give it a spin. I'm expecting to not know what to do at all at first, though, based on my experiences with European Escalation.
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Anvilfolk

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Re: Wargame: Red Dragon (war game + RTS = the ultimate geeky mil-sim)
« Reply #56 on: October 11, 2016, 11:19:10 am »

I had the same experience. I hope you manage to get into Red Dragon as well as I did. It's one of those high-effort, high-reward games for me. Having someone playing by your side kinda helps too! :)

Once you've gotten a basic grasp of things, definitely play at making your own deck. I had a blast spending an hour looking at all the UK units, and I keep updating the deck every time I play.

Also, there's plenty of youtube tutorials that are pretty great to learn the ropes :)

Xardalas

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Re: Wargame: Red Dragon (war game + RTS = the ultimate geeky mil-sim)
« Reply #57 on: October 11, 2016, 11:38:01 am »

You know I bought European Escalation way back when, and I enjoyed that even if I struggled sometimes to grasp what to do.

Then I actually got Red Dragon together in a bundle a few months ago. I need to install it and give it a spin. I'm expecting to not know what to do at all at first, though, based on my experiences with European Escalation.

Join the club! We can be ignorant, useless squaddies together! Just imagine the rage the infamous nub duo will inspire!
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umiman

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Re: Wargame: Red Dragon (war game + RTS = the ultimate geeky mil-sim)
« Reply #58 on: October 11, 2016, 12:51:33 pm »

Since we're all trying to relearn or learn the game, let's do another refresher course thing.

Let's talk about weapon types. This is fairly important as weapon types are very distinct, and knowing the difference between Radar guided and SACLOS is vital.

There's an in depth list here: http://wargame-series.wikia.com/wiki/Weapons

ATGMs:

1. MCLOS - the crappy ones. If you move your unit as the missile is moving, it will miss and do that bendy curvy thing. So basically stay still. An easy way to use this on the move is to use the attack move command.

2. SACLOS - Same as the above except better. You still can't move, but it's far more accurate and tends to fly faster too. Missiles with these also just tend to be more advanced in general and do more damage.

3. SALH / F&F - You can name the number of non-plane units with this designation in this game on two hands. They're super elite and generally you'll find them on every deck that can bring them (US and Russia basically). These guys can fire on the move with no loss in accuracy and they are usually super powerful to boot. Lots of planes have these though.

4. HEAT - Basically this means this weapon does the same damage regardless of distance. Applies to all missiles. However, you'll see them on certain tanks and vehicles and you might be wondering why. The reason is that those tanks are probably from WW2 or something like that and have really crappy damage values. The reason they have HEAT is probably some balance thing to make them at least be able to do 1 damage to their targets. This sounds stupid, but when you can buy 10 WW2 tanks for the price of one modern day tank, those 10 tanks will do 10 damage too. Still a bit worthless though, so you'll probably want to ignore these unless you have a plan.

5. KE - Default tank / autocannon designation. Nothing special here. Means they do less damage the further away they are.

6. SA - An inferior version of F&F. The only difference between this and F&F is that this requires visual contact over the enemy at all times.

7. RAD - Radar guided. Usually means it's hyper accurate and extremely long ranged. You'll find these on high end AA and certain air superiority planes. This also means they can get targeted by SEAD, which is up next. Not that it's not limited to missiles as some gun AA have this too.

8. SEAD - Anti-radar missile. Basically only works against RAD but will obliterate them. Excellent at destroying high value enemy AA unless the enemy turns off their radar weapons. It's also a good argument for not bringing too many RAD AA to begin with. This can shoot planes with RAD out of the sky too. The Soviets have a recon helicopter that has this, amusingly.
 
9. SMK - Smoke. Important. Make sure you have enough to saturate an area.

10. CORR - Artillery is kinda dumb without line of sight as it just ends up shooting over too large an area. This means that to maximize the use of your artillery, you need to get recon or some other kind of vision over your target. You'll know you have it with your bombardment reticule becomes small. How small the reticule is depends on your artillery.

11. NPLM - Burns stuff. Burns stuff good. Works against everything, contrary to what you might think. Kills tanks just as easily as it kills infantry. Also burns fuel, which is fun, as it can mean even if the vehicle survives it has no fuel left. Also excellent at making enemy units panic and rout.

12. CQC - Infantry that have this tend to be better at fighting other infantry on the move. Also it gives SMGs more accuracy and rifles less accuracy.

----------

Here's some other I think are notable:

1. Grenade launchers - Kinda the best anti-infantry weapon outside of just burning them. Some infantry units and a number of APCs and IFVs have this. Generally they're equipped as urban combat / anti-infantry roles. They stun enemies really hard. The US has a cheap helicopter that has this and it's hilarious. This can also take out light vehicles while stunning heavy ones. There is a very scary Soviet vehicle called the BMPT that also has this. It's very heavily armoured, has a grenade launcher, a cannon, and an autocannon. If you see it, don't take it lightly as it will massacre an entire town block by block if left unchecked.

2. Autocannons - Personally I think the autocannon is the king of the battlefield. Given the choice between any other weapon on a vehicle, I tend to choose the one that has an autocannon. But that's just me. I like the versatility of the weapon. Basically this gun is kinda good at fighting everything more or less (except planes). Also they kinda turn infantry and light vehicles into paste. A single Marder can obliterate an entire front of enemy light infantry along with accompanying vehicles. So think of them as heavy machineguns that can attack armoured stuff to a degree.

3. Snipers - These are relatively rare actually and it's possible you can go through the entire game without realizing they exist. But they do, and they're fearsome if used properly. They have small unit sizes and have gigantic vision ranges, which is nice. Most of them are meant to kill off enemy infantry without the enemy even realizing. However, there is one guy... Canadian... who has an anti-vehicle sniper rifle. Not only can he slowly kill off your armoured troops, but he can also... shoot... HELICOPTERS. Yup. Not joking though, you really won't know what's killing your guys as there's no bullet trail or anything.

Anvilfolk

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Re: Wargame: Red Dragon (war game + RTS = the ultimate geeky mil-sim)
« Reply #59 on: October 11, 2016, 01:13:00 pm »

Nice, thanks for the heads up on this. I was actually searching for more details on Semi-Active (SA) weapons. It's basically guided weapons (GUID) for units that can't stop, e.g. airplanes. You still need to face target until weapon impact, and won't be able to fire another one in the meantime.

Also, I looked up KE. Turns out KE damage is damage done at maximum range. It gets stronger the closer you are, instead of weaker the further you are! This makes it more viable for silly cheap vehicles in towns to punch through larger enemy units' armour.
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