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[martinuzz]

Personally I find Yoink's outburst annoying and it retards the understanding of a question poised at the very start of this thread: "why would anyone vote for Duterte?"

There's no need to get personal. What outbursts? I only see him posting a normal human reaction to insanity happening in the Phillipines. And yes, I did get the impression too, that Tiruin was upset by people criticizing Duterte, not just in this thread, but with any other news about Dutere I posted in the Australasia thread as well. I figured it might be because it's not safe to post anything but we love the glorious leader, for someone close to the recieving end of mass murder.

I don't really give a crap at this point as to the why he became popular and why people voted for him. I get it, he fights corruption, and made a city safe (using death squads).
What I care about is stopping him and his madness before he kills 3 million people.

[Tiruin]

OK uhh, let's set a precedence for no misunderstandings to crop up o_O

"Oh yes, Tiruin is defending Duterte despite her obvious and apparent stance that she voted for Miriam, and is deeply humanistically aligned--is against several aspects of Duterte's character, and has merely mentioned positive traits about what he did alongside criticizing the negative bits."

Repeatedly and at length whenever anyone was criticizing him... perhaps the tone of your posts was just a bit misleading.
I got the impression you were upset by people criticising his deeds and were arguing against them. I'm glad to be wrong in this case.

Precedence for consideration: Nobody is supporting the death of life :O

Now on the context:

That and the previous administration really failed to deliver on its promises, so it's actually worthwhile to know the context as to how the Philippines willingly voted in plurality an unstable person who said "Do Not Vote For Me" in 'girlfriend' speak, in spite of a rather visible sign of him being... well... unstable.

What this cool dude said o_o

I'd really prefer if the topic of the OP was changed to discussing this president rather than the wording it is in present because:
1. This case is foreign to many people (sans that of the whole drug-related issues), because Duterte is NOT an incompetent person (in the least, he does have a track record in the past--he has worked as a legislator along with being within admisnistrative experience)
2. I'd not like people to go all comparing to Trump. It...detracts from pretty much everything because everyone has something to say--but the progress can't reach an efficient solution because what's in mind is usually 'why doesn't this person seem to fit :I' *which usually dwells on the characteristics on why they're appearing so BLEH*...so yeah.
3. Us Filipinos are also facing this ourselves :v Y'know the thing when you go online and...as stated concisely by my fellowman here:

TL;DR, there are now two major groups: pro-Duterte and anti-Duterte. A neutral group exists, but if you state anti-leanings, you're lumped with the anti-Dutertes who are often slandered with being drug users, in cahoots with drug pushers, and or advocates of the Yellows (Liberal Party, aka the previous admin's party), and that you're an idiot for not voting pro-Duterte.

If I'm a bit unclear in this post, feel free to ask me further about it.

When you go online and speak against the ideas but are for something better (ie That phenomena that happened with Yoink [with respect, not at him, but the impression]), and people feel like you're against the whole thing, the above quote happens.
As in, we've got a lot of BLEH hitting us when we speak about decency online because of those irrational comments our way We're not anti-Duterte, we're against the methods that's occurring given the resources at hand--although the context is extremely important.

I don't really give a crap at this point as to the why he became popular and why people voted for him. I get it, he fights corruption, and made a city safe (using death squads).
What I care about is stopping him and his madness before he kills 3 million people.

Point ahead:
He is not intentionally killing people. People are being killed because of collateral effects and how proceeds are going. It's assigning all these numbers to him is what is also adding to the issues around--he has stated that he doesn't mind his mouth, as long as it helps the country in the long-run by his hard-stance.

Personally I find Yoink's outburst annoying and it retards the understanding of a question poised at the very start of this thread: "why would anyone vote for Duterte?"

There's no need to get personal. What outbursts? I only see him posting a normal human reaction to insanity happening in the Phillipines. And yes, I did get the impression too, that Tiruin was upset by people criticizing Duterte, not just in this thread, but with any other news about Dutere I posted in the Australasia thread as well. I figured it might be because it's not safe to post anything but we love the glorious leader, for someone close to the recieving end of mass murder.

No. I'm not upset that he's getting criticism :V
I'm upset that people's criticisms are off the point. THat's the same reason why I bopped you in the Australasian thread :/ Which technically does not include ASIA. (sorry, just wanted to bop that humorous note)

YES we're all upset about people dying. But then what goes on about understanding the situation? Are people going to brush it off as 'The Philippines is [insert negative adjective here in judgement]'? Is the main focus going to the President ONLY as if this is some kind of despotism once more?
This is what I'd like the direction of this thread to go instead of people reacting to OMG THIS PERSON IS DOING WHAT, only.

[Loud Whispers]

That number isn't credible at all. 600,000 is about 1/3rd the number of prisoners in the USA, who are the world leaders in incarceration by a far margin. That many arrested in Philippines would put them near the top of the list for per-capita prison population. Do they really have that much unused prison space just put together - in the last few months?
So even if 600,000 people have "turned themselves in", almost all of them would have just been turned around and sent home. Philippines doesn't have the infrastructure to incarcerate or treat that many people.

Your logic is sound, the Philippines does not have the capacity to house all its convicts

However, you are wrong in that they do not turn them home

They incarcerate them anyways

Spoiler: this is what Philippino prison looks like right now (click to show/hide)

Number holds up

[Reelya]

He's going to implode the economy with all that. The article states how those people's cases take years to process. You can cram people into cells, but you still have to feed them, and you can't
make more courts and judges or lawyers easily - or cheaply. In fact, next year, they're already pushing for a 12% increase in government spending- which means a 10 billion dollar deficit, or a 3% of GDP deficit. Most of the spending is on the police. A militarized approach to prosperity. It's not a new idea. And it does not have a good track record.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-08-15/philippines-says-2017-deficit-may-widen-to-478-1b-pesos-3-gdp

Also, your article mentions people going insane due to the overcrowding. Now, those people either need psych treatment, you incarcerate them for life at great expense, or you release them and they become a recurring problem.

Let's not forget the potential for a plague outbreak. To pay for his police, Duterte has massively slashed healthcare spending. And he's cramming hundreds of thousands of people into cramped cells with no toilets. Common sense suggests we'll be hearing about a huge outbreak of something really nasty in the Philippines.

[Loud Whispers]

Eradicating the drug trade, no more cartels peeling peoples faces off

[Reelya]

That shit's never worked anywhere, and just about every country has done tough on drugs already.

And there's no basis for the argument that nobody had gone as hard as Duterte before - they have. It just never works.

[Loud Whispers]

Never worked before?

A United Nations report in December revealed that opium production in the Golden Triangle had tripled since 2006, with the illegal drugs trade in the region worth $16.3 billion. The area produced 762 tonnes of opium in 2014, making about 76 tonnes of heroin, the U.N. Office on Drugs and Crime said in its Southeast Asia Opium Survey stated.

While Afghanistan is now the biggest cultivator of opium poppies in the world, the Golden Triangle used to be largest, until eradication efforts in the late 1990s brought cultivation plummeting. However, production has been on the rise once more due to a better transport infrastructure as well as an increasing number of heroin users in the surrounding countries.

Three months ago, Thailand, Myanmar, Laos and China launched a programme to curbing the illegal trafficking, with each nation realising that the problem could not be handled by each country alone. Thailand now hosts the Safe Mekong Co-ordination Centre (SMCC) in Chiang Mai town, which helps coordinate investigations between the four nations.

Has the new effort at coordination worked? According to the SMCC, appearently so.

Since operations began in January, Thailand, Myanmar, Laos and China have reported nearly 600 arrests along with solving 590 drug-related cases. Over 5,000 law enforcement officers have participated in around 840 operations.

SE Asians should not have to suffer just because drug addicts from wealthier nations want their fix
Not to mention when Duterte was in charge of Davao, through this method he made it the 9th safest city in the world

This method is not all that shocking to me, because I am used to SE and E Asian countries where death penalty for drug and human trafficking is normal and the military and police are both involved in the destruction of drug traffickers/producers/processors

Asia’s toughening approach contrasts with a slackening off in the West. Trading cannabis, which earns beheading in Saudi Arabia, has been legalised for recreational use in four states of America, as well as in Uruguay, and decriminalised in much of Europe and Latin America. Heroin addiction is increasingly treated as an illness rather than a crime: clean needles are available in many rich countries, and a few, including Britain and Switzerland, even prescribe heroin to a small number of addicts. In most areas of social policy, such different regional policies would not matter much. But in the case of drugs, a relentlessly globalising business, the sharply diverging approaches will lead to more uncomfortable stand-offs between East and West.

The West grew degenerate and weak
Thus in the west, deaths from overdoses and heroin addicts increases
Abuse and addiction of prescription opioids increases
Marijuana abuse wasn't decreased by legalization in the USA but increased
In the UK the number of deaths caused by heroin and morphine increased to record highs
And of course LSD and Ecstasy usage once more increased
And cocaine has benefited from the wrong association with celebrities as a safe drug, usage has increased

Is there a drug that hasn't enjoyed success in the West because of their lax morals? It's a fucking failure to everyone whose lives are ruined by drugs, whose lives are ruined by those addicted to drugs and whose lives are ruined because they wanted to be badman and sell drugs
Make it the permanent domain of pathetic failures consigned to death and advertise it everywhere, children will not look up to gangsters nor see in drugs prestige and glamour

And there's no basis for the argument that nobody had gone as hard as Duterte before - they have. It just never works.

Who are these people who have done as Duterte has, I want to see why their operations failed
I mean that politely because this is an informational blackspot for me

*EDIT
Stuff like this imo sets Duterte apart from people who pay lip service to anti-drug operations
Duterte goes after those who undermine efforts from within, taking up elected positions in government just to better indulge their addiction by betraying their voters on behalf of criminals, contrast with the West which does not crack down on drug abuse when rich and powerful people do it in finance and politics
*EDITx2
I wonder if the USA's failure to find an alternative is because they let white people take all the drugs and only go after black people

[Reelya]

Your own sources seem to suggest it didn't actually work. They eradicated drugs in the golden triangle, more drugs appeared somewhere else, now massive amounts of new drug production is occuring in the region that they originally eradicated it. But they say it's working now, and the "evidence" is that they arrested 600 people. Whoop-de-doo. Citing "arrests" as your "results" is what you tell the media when you don't have any actual evidence that your policies are having a real effect on the drug problem.

Marijuana abuse wasn't decreased by legalization in the USA but increased

... When in fact your link says

Colorado marijuana law: uptick in adults lighting up, but not minors

Anonymous surveys given to about 40,000 students before and after legalization showed ‘no significant change’ in usage by children under 18
...
Among high school students, use went from about 23% in 2005 to about 20% in 2014. Similarly, there was no significant change in use by children younger than 13 in recent years.

I really can't take anything you say seriously because of how regularly you completely distort the articles you link. The one "bad" thing was that more highschoolers are getting busted for pot in Colorado now (which might explain the slight drop in highschool pot smoking), since they're enforcing the age restrictions I guess. Net result seems to be a drop in the number of under-18 smokers. And if less are picking it up in their teens that suggests demographic numbers would decline in the long term.

[Tiruin]

Woo, information. Rather than people just saying passive-aggressive 'we know better' because they're unaware of the bigger picture that isn't being reported and then get the wrong interpretation because other local people who have say otherwise.

I figured it might be because it's not safe to post anything but we love the glorious leader, for someone close to the recieving end of mass murder.

Try to figure thinking about your reaction before attacking others and saying we're "defending" something. Please.
Because in our culture--this kind of condescension is very, very...impolite, to say the least.
We could also do with a better OP title in that regards.

[Trapezohedron]

Dat prison cell problem. That doesn't get discussed much on the news, even though it should. Not even the local newspaper is reporting it. Hot damn.

And yes, Duterte's clearly an oddball. He's after the obviously corrupt government we pay our taxpayer funds to, which is why he still retains a relatively strong local opinion, despite the obvious abuses to human rights, under the pretense that "things have to be done this way" or it won't ever be done.

But yeah, I'm also equally concerned because some are logically and rationally opposed to him internationally, and that is an opinion very likely shared amongst investors. It's creating political unrest and investors (again) don't like uncertainty. It would implode the economy in the long run if he keeps up on this brutish acts of "solving" the problem, and disregard the constitutional laws - the backbone that keeps nations afloat, so to speak.

That and a lot of innocent people have been caught in the crossfire already. And that he keeps reflecting the criticism given to him by the international community back at them.

Not to mention currying up to China, which is not an opinion shared by every single Filipino in the country. There's a divide here that was created not too long ago, which is shit.

[Tiruin]

Dat prison cell problem. That doesn't get discussed much on the news, even though it should. Not even the local newspaper is reporting it. Hot damn.

It...actually was? I recall the editorial and otherwise really remarking on it, even a very impactful picture that followed its impression. [The picture in question is in a newpaper around a month and a half+ since this time of posting, showing the picture of a large man with a shirt labeled 'drug users' (or something along that line--can't recall at the moment) stepping into a tinier prison building by lifting the roof, revealing another person just as small with the caption reading convicts [or similar?]).
And yeah--that was in the Philippine Star ever since the news was reporting the incapacity of the prisons to hold the turned over users.

[Reelya]

Yeah, I agree with Tiruin about that, Martinuzz: it's very insulting for someone in a European country to act like any non-caucasian developing nation who's leader you don't like is automatically running things like Castro or Stalin. The Philippines has problems but it's still a vibrant democracy with a plurality of opinions and media.

[Tiruin]

Thanks Reelya It's just tiring hearing the "same" thing from people locally who aren't noticing the bigger picture x_X and then...seeing a parallel kind of mindset here. It would really be better if asking or self-checking would be done instead of accusing others to fit a stereotype to make sense of 'why is this person doing stoopid things O_O' or stuff.

But really, if anyone has things to ask--just ask. Us here don't have the general mindset of obfuscation or delivering half-hearted details; when things like this involve our countrymen or otherwise, we stick up for them--this follows in also giving criticism towards them (because communalism @_@).
Either you have that kind of response, or you have the hard-headed response that goes into categorizing any response that isn't towards the idea of being right, into the category of being wrong. That too could happen. And these are the general responses all throughout.

E: Also why I ask the change of title is because all the talk is going around the President--when that's not really the case considering the context of it all. This isn't a one-man government It also sounds kinda crude given the emotional pull of how its worded.

[Max™]

Good lord, I'd feel bad putting my dorfs in those conditions.

Also, LW's link included this: "More Coloradans are calling Poison Control reporting marijuana-related exposure. Pot calls went from 44 in 2006 to 227 in 2015." which amused the hell out of me.

"911, what's your emergency?"
'Duuuuuude, like, I can't figure out how to get my shirt undo.'
"Your shirt 'undo', sir?"
'Yeah, it's like, locked or something.'
"Did you try undoing the buttons?"
'...whoa!'

Also: "THC related traffic fatalities increased by 100%!" can mean "went from 44 to 90" so, yanno.

[spümpkin]

In reference to Tiruin and Trapezo, I agree that they should be asked things for confirmation :p

Also someone change the dng thread title already. Something less clickbaity i dunno