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Author Topic: What's going on in the Philippines?  (Read 20369 times)

martinuzz

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What's going on in the Philippines?
« on: September 30, 2016, 03:49:23 am »

After coming home from a meeting in Vietnam which discussed south-east Asian drugs problems, Duterte gave a rather insane interview.

He said "Hitler slaughtered 3 million jews. There are 3 million drug addicts in the Phillipines. That is a fact. I will take great pleasure in slaughtering them. I am looking forward to slaughtering 3 million addicts.
Germany had Hitler, the Phillipines have me. All drug users are criminals and I will save this country, and it's generations to come, from drug problems."


He got his numbers wrong though. Hitler killed over 6 million jews.

How is that guy even still president, instead of locked in a psych ward with a anti-biting and spitting mask on his face?
« Last Edit: October 19, 2016, 11:07:29 am by martinuzz »
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BorkBorkGoesTheCode

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Re: Duterte has gone completely apeshit Hitler-insane
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2016, 04:10:09 am »

Is he doing it now? ? ? :o Is Tiruin gonna be okay?
« Last Edit: September 30, 2016, 04:19:16 am by BorkBorkGoesTheCode »
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Reelya

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Re: Duterte has gone completely apeshit Hitler-insane
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2016, 04:33:54 am »

If he kills 3 million people his toll would be almost as high as Hugo Chavez.

JoshuaFH

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Re: Duterte has gone completely apeshit Hitler-insane
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2016, 06:48:51 am »

This is my first time hearing the name, so I looked up a CNN article on the guy... so how does such a bigot and Hitler-wannabe become a president anyhow? Though I suppose I could ask that of any evil leader in history.
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NRDL

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Re: Duterte has gone completely apeshit Hitler-insane
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2016, 06:54:13 am »

Same reason AS Hitler, really.  Project strength, promise a better future, build up an idealised image that caters to the desires of a large portion of your voting populace.
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Reelya

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Re: Duterte has gone completely apeshit Hitler-insane
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2016, 07:01:28 am »

Read through Duerte's history. It's complex: while he has the rabid-anti-drugs/crime thing going he was also a pioneer of indigenous and women's rights while in office as a mayor. He was apparently also the first person in Asia to create a "911" system that didn't charge you for using it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodrigo_Duterte

At least he's equal-opportunity for drugs: he hates cigarette smokers as much as he hates anyone. He reportedly, personally forced a tourist to swallow a cigarette butt after the tourist refused to adhere to his anti-smoking ban when he was mayor. Since Filipinos smoke at about double the rate of Americans, then this could in fact save many more lives than people randomly killed because of his anti-drug-dealer outbursts.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2016, 07:20:44 am by Reelya »
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Trapezohedron

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Re: Duterte has gone completely apeshit Hitler-insane
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2016, 07:20:35 am »

Yeah to the above, and that Davao was touted as the safest city in Mindanao. Which given the Moro Islamic Liberation Front and other elements' presence, is actually pretty safe all things considered. That and he promised the long-estranged left people (the previous admin fought to ignore them and ignore their plight too hard) that he would unify and finally give them voice for their concerns is what gave them power to vote the guy.

In a country whose history is being abused by high-trend, rich politicians for their own reasons of graft, his gung-ho attitude, portfolio and his simplistic lifestyle (politicians would often have mansions while he has a simple two-storey house) won them over. There's also people who (misguidedly) think that drug addicts are inhumane beasts and are the root cause of every problem in the Philippines.

Well, in any case, credit to where credit's due.

However, he was already showing signs of snapping. He stated many times in the election not to vote for him, because there would be bloodshed. He backed out and re-entered the election at least once (I'm thinking twice but I'm too lazy to search). He would never tone his mouth down, but I guess to the masses his "truthfulness" was a positive element for the guy.

But I was long wary against the guy. Had my vote on Miriam Defensor-Santiago (rest her soul), and when the gung-ho Duterte inevitably won, he basically cussed at every country who dared question his motives for killing people fast-track, started wearing tinfoil hats and alienating the US (which is *not* a good idea, because while China does have the industries to help generate jobs, we are losing a portion of the country's sovereignty, which Spratlys falls into just because he wants a train system for Mindanao, which is very cheap all things considered in the long run, and despite the Hague arbitration siding with the PH on China's 9 Dash Line claims of territory), and I'm uncertain as to what Putin could ever help the Philippines with.

And the Philippines' main service exports are the OFWs and the BPO industry workers, which due to alienation and his blatant disregard for the constitutional laws may force them to back out. No company wants to settle in uncertain ground, after all.

And while he spouts his insane rhetoric, the Philippine Peso recently hit its lowest since 2009, and all because one guy can't control his mouth. Even in Chinese publications, they're very wary of this President, so he stands to lose more by forfeiting the relationship with the US and trying to woo China. After all, after his term, it's quite easy for the next President to undo everything he stood for. Why would China immediately bite?

And I have no idea why he compared himself to the unanimously reviled Hitler. That's also another hit to German relationships too.

What the fuck is this guy doing?
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TempAcc

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Re: Duterte has gone completely apeshit Hitler-insane
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2016, 07:25:07 am »

Duterte's intentions are ok, but he's choosing the worst way possible to combat drugs, IE turning drug addicts into enemies of society and attempting to destroy them. That idea isn't too bad when applied to criminals (but not correct either), but is pretty terrible when applied to drug addicts, given how they're also victims. The phillipines have been through a wild ride with ride, both in good and bad ways, and it looks it'll just get wilder. Duterte may just eventualy become the biggest example on why the war on drugs has failed, but we'll see how it goes.
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Trapezohedron

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Re: Duterte has gone completely apeshit Hitler-insane
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2016, 07:28:32 am »

All I can ask for really is for him to shut his mouth, consider other pathways to deal with the drug addict problem (not all of them are criminals, and if you're going to phrase it that way, there's a lot of room for abuse given you've already killed mere suspects), actually leave the PR speak to his PR team who often have to deal with his doublespeak just to ensure the other countries don't think ill (but they do now).

If the guy could just retain one iota of decorum, I guess the Philippines would stop leaking opportunities. I'm extremely worried about the economical consequences of his actions.
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Tiruin

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Re: Duterte has gone completely apeshit Hitler-insane
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2016, 07:50:05 am »

Yeaaaaaaaaaaa, news notes that Duterte likens himself to Hitler.

Pretty much, before my whole wall of text, the solution here is waiting--if we cannot do anything about it. The situation is complex considering the delicateness of it all.

All I can ask for really is for him to shut his mouth, consider other pathways to deal with the drug addict problem (not all of them are criminals, and if you're going to phrase it that way, there's a lot of room for abuse given you've already killed mere suspects), actually leave the PR speak to his PR team who often have to deal with his doublespeak just to ensure the other countries don't think ill (but they do now).

If the guy could just retain one iota of decorum, I guess the Philippines would stop leaking opportunities. I'm extremely worried about the economical consequences of his actions.
Basically everything my countryman here says.

[...]
And everything in here down to the letter (albeit I agree with my vote with yours)
Also if we're going on Philippine politics,  I'd like this thread to be renamed into that instead of a whole thread remarking on a President (eg At this rate, I'm seeing things also bringing up several other notices--including De Lima and other related happenings since the Presidency)

Is he doing it now? ? ? :o Is Tiruin gonna be okay?
I'm far north of the Capital, in the mountains :P
Trapezo is in the Visayas.
We're totally going to be OK.

What we ARE worried about (since we're the first to receive any kind of these news) are pretty much the social climate of the country that also ISN'T being reported internationally.

Duterte's intentions are ok, but he's choosing the worst way possible to combat drugs,[...]
Like this whole post. Duterte is pretty much cracking down very well (albeit hard-handedly, given the high rate of corruption and otherwise) in the economic sector on illegalities and enforcement of the law (because of laxness. Heavy laxness in many areas.), but the main focus on Duterte is what brings the most focus onto him--the war on drugs, and the huge amount of context he has stated on that ever since he started campaigning.

But I was long wary against the guy. Had my vote on Miriam Defensor-Santiago (rest her soul), and when the gung-ho Duterte inevitably won, he basically cussed at every country who dared question his motives for killing people fast-track, started wearing tinfoil hats and alienating the US[...]
Actually to add more detail into that--his 'cussing' is part of her personality in communication; he sees threats, because of how what the perception of other countries acted. In the mirror of events that is not his own--it looks horrible. It is horrible. But he didn't cuss without reason--it's just that his reasoning in the context of an international scale in the position of being a President is very unprofessional of his position.
...The alienating part, not so much. It's in the little details to the situations :-\ But yeah. His mouth. :-X

Same reason AS Hitler, really.  Project strength, promise a better future, build up an idealised image that caters to the desires of a large portion of your voting populace.
Authoritarian personalities, actually. Consider those 'hard-paced' ideas; that's a cornerstone of authoritarianism. What the news generally (I think?) doesn't report that much however is the "opposite" side of Duterte, the one we see in local news and interviews. He does pretty much care--but he is solidly against drugs of any form, having a very rigid idea of how to treat it; do note however that he has been calling for anyone else to intervene with 'better methods' ever since his presidency. I've no idea what's going on in that area however, as I'm too busy these days :-X

But the reason on why he rose into presidency is pretty much different. The ONE HUGE BIGGEST FACTOR IS BLOODY CANCER on Miriam Santiago--if she didn't have that nor have stage IV, she would've won.
By a landslide victory.
But she is, and in respect to her memory, a great president we never had. :'(

Do note however in regards to Duterte--he has a habit of saying really controversial things figuratively. He has noted this in the past within interviews. And also has apologized for it many times (ie When Obama wanted to meet up, and several times before that). While it doesn't give any 'excuse' or whatever to his actions (I've no idea why people think that and say that to me, especially foreigners, when I mention that bit of 'figuratively' o_O), it's also an important note in checking details about him.

(People shifted their votes to the most competent, and in consideration of the competition, he came out through it all--because he addressed one of the major issues in this country: Drugs and being used as a drug trafficking region for other countries. His methods could've worked better if it was more holistic [we lack the professionals in aiding the people--psychologists and other professions are lacking thoroughly, as an example], but it's damnably poor considering the aftereffects in application. Another big factor is the intent; there was a story weeks ago of a mayor having surrendered, but his son escaping capture because he was a lieutenant of a drug smuggling ring...or something along those lines; the son was forewarned and chose to escape rather than be pardoned and seek treatment, is as I recall the story goes.)

However, he was already showing signs of snapping. He stated many times in the election not to vote for him, because there would be bloodshed. He backed out and re-entered the election at least once (I'm thinking twice but I'm too lazy to search). He would never tone his mouth down, but I guess to the masses his "truthfulness" was a positive element for the guy.
Actually do note that he stated his reasoning for people not to vote him too. I forgot the exacts (because busy busy) but it's available in youtube interview videos (especially the initial interviews post June 30), wherein he talks very frankly about his motives and attitude.

If he kills 3 million people his toll would be almost as high as Hugo Chavez.
There's an additional note that the killings are also being connected to his name, but also being done by vigilantes. This includes many sorts; from personal guards, privatized gunmen, and otherwise :/ Settling grudges and such--or acting on hearsay of people being drug pushers (it's reported a lot in our news--people who have had connections but are not essentially pushers, etc). It's not all him doing this, but it's through his message and its interpretation within reason that it's being done.

Which is why, again, his mouth. :-\


Edoot: How many times people misspell Philippines amuses me. Especially if it's a habit of those particular people :P
* Tiruin bops Martinuzz.
It could be seen as disrespect, but it's now usually become humor. :I
« Last Edit: September 30, 2016, 08:20:18 am by Tiruin »
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smjjames

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Re: Duterte has gone completely apeshit Hitler-insane
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2016, 08:24:05 am »

In other words, you've got Donald Trump. Though I don't think Trump would willingly (or perhaps intentionally, or knowingly) cause bloodshed like that. Sure, there's probably going to be some done in his name because racist asshole, but intentional and gratuitous violence like Duterte, I doubt it.
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Tiruin

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Re: Duterte has gone completely apeshit Hitler-insane
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2016, 08:27:54 am »

In other words, you've got Donald Trump. Though I don't think Trump would willingly (or perhaps intentionally, or knowingly) cause bloodshed like that. Sure, there's probably going to be some done in his name because racist asshole, but intentional and gratuitous violence like Duterte, I doubt it.
Yeah no. He isn't comparable to Trump in that manner. While there are certain characteristics that are distinct about him and Trump, this isn't a significant conclusion to say he's Trump. He's an iron-fisted person, but he also has qualities that are on the positive. Our concern here however is discussing his methods (unless that's as far as I read martinuzz' intent for making a thread about him :V). Du30 has a background in consideration, which has benefited many people (the whole leader of 'death squads' allegation is also under crucial analysis, which has been noted by the news that has been cleared by the DoJ, but is also being brought up against him, which is part of why I mention it's delicate because of people testifying against him--directly connected to De Lima in a way, and many other things not mentioned in international news x_x)
Trump is...I've not much to say about him politely :-\ because I don't hear much good about Trump other than how bland and impolite he's been. Like, ever. It's like the news just jumps everytime Trump says something...not on the same intellectual level as the position he's aiming for. Although there's much going on in internal news there in America that I don't know about o_O
« Last Edit: September 30, 2016, 08:31:07 am by Tiruin »
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Trapezohedron

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Re: Duterte has gone completely apeshit Hitler-insane
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2016, 08:46:34 am »

The difference between him and Trump is that, he does have some good intentions at least. Some in the way that he wants to stop a problem, but he has the delicacy of a hammer smashing an iron plate. And for some reason is very averse to criticism.

I'm not going to say Duterte is totally evil, but I am not liking how he's making a clown car show of the country at the moment with nary a single day of reviling interaction or reaction made by him or his yes-men senate (When was a person's personal sex life a discrediting factor? There should be limits to what should be publicized, because an entire generation of children could possibly be looking up to him and may see his lack of tact as a positive. Also, he is a known womanizer).

Trump is just some asshole with a power issue who spends every single second betraying his own intentions. But then again, I'm starting to doubt even that, because Duterte seems to apparently have a very questionable set of people he looks up to, what with his praises with Marcos, and his comparison to Hitler at the moment.
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smjjames

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Re: Duterte has gone completely apeshit Hitler-insane
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2016, 09:03:01 am »

(When was a person's personal sex life a discrediting factor? There should be limits to what should be publicized, because an entire generation of children could possibly be looking up to him and may see his lack of tact as a positive. Also, he is a known womanizer)

Are you talking about Trump or Duterte here?

Also, it matters to the more religious conservatives (at least here in the US), but it's not as big of an issue as it used to be. Plus Bill Clintons affairs probably made it somewhat less of a big deal.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2016, 09:05:41 am by smjjames »
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Tiruin

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Re: Duterte has gone completely apeshit Hitler-insane
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2016, 09:05:09 am »

The difference between him and Trump is that, he does have some good intentions at least. Some in the way that he wants to stop a problem, but he has the delicacy of a hammer smashing an iron plate. And for some reason is very averse to criticism.
Aye x_x Y'all should hear of the reforms he's done. That's partly why he got a ton of votes compared to the competition in the run for President (but then Lung Cancer :I). The thing with all this is the complexity due to internal strife--the seats of politicians are also affecting the reputation of Duterte (as in, they're also players to his image)


In which I fully agree with Trapezohedron. He isn't evil. Think like, Chaotic Lawful (in as much as my D&D bluntness of knowledge goes). He has intents towards progress--and in the context of the environment being as complex as it is, ehhh.
[...]There should be limits to what should be publicized, because an entire generation of children could possibly be looking up to him and may see his lack of tact as a positive. Also, he is a known womanizer).[...]
One bit about one of the eminent teachers I've heard before the presidency was that some kids were repeated Duterte's coarse attitude. Because 'the president can do that'. That's what really hurt her both as a teacher for a long time, and seeing the effect on the youth.

[...]what with his praises with Marcos,[...]
I think it's in part due to Marcos being a soldier (and was...seemingly? the main reason he put forward in why he should be buried in the cemetery of heroes {Libingan ng Bayani}. I don't recall the exacts, nor on if his body was buried in the weeks before now, considering the resistance from those who survived Martial Law {which I fully support because AUGH, how many details LACK in our history books about IMPORTANT events such as these! [along with, y'know, most of the American war and stuff, not considering that we have a blank of general history thanks to stoopid Spanish conquistadores.]}).
In the least about this, Duterte's directness and forwardness in his nature shows and unveils many parts that are affected and also that can be changed for the better.

I just seriously hope and will aim for bettering this place despite the woes it's going through nowadays. >_>

But anyway--in regards to the thread, we're just as confused as anyone not from this country as to why he's saying what he's saying. Waiting, is one of the best ways to handle this rather than post more about how bad Duterte seems to the world at large, as it's already being followed up in checking here.

(When was a person's personal sex life a discrediting factor? There should be limits to what should be publicized, because an entire generation of children could possibly be looking up to him and may see his lack of tact as a positive. Also, he is a known womanizer)

Are you talking about Trump or Duterte here?
De Lima. As to the first question, I think. It's a major discussion here too about her and what went on.
To give general context--De Lima was the head of the Department of Justice; she is ALSO the person who has directly accused Duterte about leading Death Squads, bringing in a controversial witness who has spoken as a first-hand person towards such acts, which is currently being covered in fact-checking in the current time. She is...breaking down due to many things and also has been removed from her post in the recent weeks due to several issues, also involving her credibility, in the context of what's been going on in the past few months.
To put note to this--his first reactions were to keep this between them, not mentioning her name and treating her with respect--the same did follow, until it seemed she was connected with the Bilibid Prison drug scandal...which then blew up into a conflict I cannot narrate on because of how complex it is. In general, it ended with her evacuating her post. {As far as I recall anyway, I've been detached from the news due to thesisworks but always listening to it when my dad turns on the TV to keep himself updated.}

Her general information in WIkipedia page is very incomplete regarding all these.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2016, 09:09:54 am by Tiruin »
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