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Author Topic: Your national healthcare system  (Read 8401 times)

Frumple

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Re: Your national healthcare system
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2016, 08:51:09 am »

They... did, neo.
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alexandertnt

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Re: Your national healthcare system
« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2016, 08:54:51 am »

Plus with socialised health care, you can just chose not to have government health care and go with a private provider. It's not like its one of the other.

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I am surprised no one brought up the death panels in the UK

Someone didn't read the thread ;)
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MorleyDev

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Re: Your national healthcare system
« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2016, 08:58:12 am »

They... did, neo.

Source? When I google it I just find unreputable american websites or news articles quoting Sarah Palin without providing any actual sources, a brief mention of the NHS on a wikipedia page on the American Death Panel Obamacare claim (basically saying "This got completely debunked").

The only thing I can find that comes close is to do with donor organs. There's no good solution when you have 7000 people on a waiting list and only 5000 a year who die in a way that leaves their organs usable.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2016, 09:05:00 am by MorleyDev »
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Frumple

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Re: Your national healthcare system
« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2016, 09:02:28 am »

... right here. Neo was talking about this thread, or at least wrote it that way. When they came up on the first page of the thread.

And yeah, you're not going to find anything reputable because it's utter BS. Bonus points for it being deflection away from the US insurance companies that basically did exactly that, specifically targeting high cost insurance holders to not pay/kick off the insurance plan/etc.
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MorleyDev

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Re: Your national healthcare system
« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2016, 09:03:53 am »

... right here. Neo was talking about this thread, or at least wrote it that way. When they came up on the first page of the thread.

Oh, my bad. I thought you meant "The death panels did exist at one point", which was why I was confused. :)

But yeah, NHS is good. I pay about £8 a month for citalopram, and that's my only expense not covered by NI tax despite having regular checkups with my GP, and even being visited regularly at my home for a month at one point due to being feared to be 'in crisis'.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2016, 09:11:38 am by MorleyDev »
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Frumple

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Re: Your national healthcare system
« Reply #20 on: September 24, 2016, 09:07:15 am »

Eh, happens. Though... like said. They kinda' sorta' did. In the US. Just not as part of anything government funded/controlled. Best part is that iirc the ACA actually kicked that shit in the balls and told the insurance corps to bloody well stop doing it. Part of the preexisting condition stuff, I do believe.
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Starver

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Re: Your national healthcare system
« Reply #21 on: September 24, 2016, 12:38:31 pm »

You don't really need more stories about the NHS, save to say that there's the local tug of war already mentioned between villification by those who say it isn't fit for purpose (who also tend to underfund it to encourage it to be 'leaner and more efficient') and those that say that they will keep it going to do its good work, but may back down on funding commitmemts when push comes to shove.  These may even be the same people at different points in tne political cycle.  (Interestingly, and honestly not my intention to bring this up but it is so apt, there was the NHS £350m Brexit promise/let-down which shows just how politicians tend to show how they think their bread is buttered by the public.)

My own last healthcare incident (apart from routine dentristry which for me is 'essentially' Private, in comparison to everything else, but then there's a whole different vibe to it than the fabled Simpsonian 'Dental Plan!' that USians seem to be obsessed with - and free treatment is available for many) sounds like a bit of a disaster...  I tripped on a kerbstone and gashed my leg a bit, I discovered on returning home. Self-treated with the largest plaster I had at home, but it was an awkward wound that wouldn't close because of the stresses in the skin whenever I even tried to limp.

My last visit to my GP (~10 years ago?) had me discovering that 'emergency' appointments needed to be booked before 8:30am (some bullshit governmental directive requiring the availability of emergency appointments had made them a commodity to be booked on the day, rather than letting the GP decide upon fitting a quick triage between booked-in-advance appointments that might not even show up), so I hobbled in at 8:15 (rather than phone, because I thought it would help and I was only a couple of hundred yards away) to be told that there were no Practice Nurses in that morning (surgery has a half-dozen doctors listed as resident - not even sure which is 'mine' - but no idea if they were all there to be busy doctoring) and the receptionist suggested A&E for nursing (half a mile further away) rather than pharmacy (50 yards) for better personal dressing. (Receptionist probably playing safe. Pharmacists trained more than her and would be better placed as to whether they couldn't help, but she doesn't want to be liable for insufficiently urgent advice.)

Limp to A&E and it takes maybe quarter of an hour to be seen by their receptionist, half an hour to be seen by Triage Nurse who cleans up a bit as part of the checking of the wound before I wait ¾hr to be sent to the proper 'dressing' area. (Am offered prescription for painkillers, but it really does not hurt.)

That's in a busy mid-morning A&E department, with obvious emergency emergencies being dealt with on fast-track, whilst my injury wasn't urgent at all (IMO). By the standards of my prior A&E visit (late night/early morning) had I attended immediately after the accident, the non-emergency (but fresher) wound might have had me sitting in the A&E seating for eight hours as (first) clearly life-threatenng incidents were being dealt with and then the skeleton staff did what they could (ironically, for a skeleton staff, does not include non-emergency X-rays..!) until the proper morning shift of scanner operators, etc, came in so that injury could be moe fully assessed.

Though inconvenient in both cases (and, especially in the latter, frankly boring), the staff were brilliant. I did think in my overnighter that another non-emergency emergency was slightly more of an emergency than me, even though I got dealt with first (but it was a different medical issue, and the morning specialist for mine might have gotten in the door ahead of theirs) and no member of staff was clicking their heels (or indeed 'heals'), and no actually needy patient was left on the proverbial corridor trolley, that I could see.

This was all free at the point of use (my electronic records were brought up by the A&E receptionist - if I had been a health tourist without even a faked local cover-story then I would have been treated anyway and an attempt to bill me could have been made), it is not a case that I dare not for treatment fof fear of costs (I tend to not bother the NHS because I rarely get anything that I consider needs treatment) and I am confident that if I do need it, it is there for me 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 52.1789286 weeks a year...


The problems are that government support is (especially at the moment) accompanied by government interventions. When half of all hospitals are assessed as 'below average' (duh!1), they tend to be hit by an influx of middle-manager administration and/or top-level executives who (in the most notable examples) end up making things worse overall.

(Not that we ever hear of improvements. They're not considered newsworthy by whoever it is is currently trying to scord points.)


Compare and contrast with my (limited) knowledge of other hospital systems, it's no shining light of socialist heaven, but the US aquaintence of mine who wouldn't go to seek medical assistance, a decade or more back, for a nose-bleed that wasn't stopping, for fear of racking up charges he couldn't afford... (In contrast, I've had both emergency and non-emergency treatment for habitual nosebleeds, when I was younger, and had my nose cauterised three times in total, which is a mixed message, I know, but I think is a good thing on balance.)


1 Worse statistical asshattery is used.  With multiple different metrics applied to each establishment, a low-blip in heart health outcomes can smear a unit with good overall paediactrics results, or vice-versa, which is plain dishonest.
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Grim Portent

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Re: Your national healthcare system
« Reply #22 on: September 24, 2016, 12:59:35 pm »

The Scottish NHS does a pretty good job overall I'd say. I've never had a problem with it, nor have any of my family, though some trans friends have negative things to say about the gender clinics and the way they assess people, but from what they tell me it sounds more like a problem with some of the staff being transphobic (a problem with an industry that has a lot of older workers in it) than an institutional or procedural problem.

Waiting times at the local GP are never really bad, usually 10-15 minutes at most, surgeries at the local hospital only really get cancelled when the patient isn't ready for some reason or just doesn't show up rather than due to staff or equipment problems, the hospital's clean, the food given to patients is apparently edible, which is unusual for hospital food I'm given to understand. Complications in treatment don't seem to happen much.

Really could do with more nurses overall though, but that's an inevitable problem when working with a fairly fixed budget and a flexible demand on services. Not much can really be done about it without having to take funding from something else.  :-\
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Frumple

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Re: Your national healthcare system
« Reply #23 on: September 24, 2016, 01:12:56 pm »

Mm... yeah, US wise iirc the only thing you're absolutely guaranteed, without question or qualification, is emergency treatment. If you're bleeding out and you go up to a hospital they gotta' get your blood staying on the inside (or at least try, anyway). But so far as I'm aware that's it, and if it comes to it (i.e. you can't pay) they can take just about anything you own as restitution (how likely that is is proportional to the extent it's worth going after your junk in court).

Things are certainly better than they were a decade ago (fewer gaps in federal/state aid, less bullshit able to be pulled by insurance corps and hospitals, etc., etc.), but... the bar wasn't high, there. As I've noted previously in GD you could have probably seen similar improvement if you had literally beheaded the medical/insurance industry's upper level administration. Not even joking, I'm pretty sure things would have gotten better if you had actually killed the lot of them, and there's probably a fair few of the bastards whose policies caused enough people to die it's fairly warranted. Healthcare in the US might not be the worst in the world by a fair amount but it's pretty fucked up.

Still, is why it's good to hear about other places, ones where their healthcare stuff hasn't jammed its forehead quite so far beyond its sphincter. Hopefully sooner or later the exposure will mean people don't buy into the utter bullshite spread about non-US systems... as much, if nothing else.
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Frumple

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Re: Your national healthcare system
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2016, 12:11:04 am »

Heh, last time I checked the amusing thing is actually that a lot of the hospitals aren't really running with much of a margin, or outright need subsidizing to stay operating. Part (though only part) of the reason they charge so much is because they expect to see only a sliver of it, if anything, and to a large extent they're getting screwed just as hard from the direction of the folks they buy from. Forget what the exact percentages are, but from that 2k charge, they might normally be getting less than a hundred (either due to insurance negotiation or people just not paying), or something along those lines. Pricing just one of the ways our system's gone bugnuts but it's definitely one of the more spectacular ways it has.

Though I'd be fairly doubtful about circumcision adding much cost, tbh. It's usually done as part of the birth related stuff, iirc, and they don't really need to tack on much in the way of extra charges to break banks with that. I'm pretty sure I've actually blocked the memory of how much that stuff costs. I knew, once, and I believe I didn't want to afterwards.
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alexandertnt

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Re: Your national healthcare system
« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2016, 12:28:57 am »

Some times in the US, the bill starts off very high, and is often decreased or even eliminated entirely (after partial payment) if it becomes clear that the patient can't pay it.
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Starver

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Re: Your national healthcare system
« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2016, 11:55:40 am »

like the old '$250 for a couple of aspirin' thing, and why circumcision is so prevalent in the US. They're probably making bank off it.
How many people does it take to circumcise, I wonder? Several, I bet, and each needs to be paid for, so they're all taking a slice off the top...

:o
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ChairmanPoo

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Re: Your national healthcare system
« Reply #27 on: September 25, 2016, 12:48:33 pm »

like the old '$250 for a couple of aspirin' thing, and why circumcision is so prevalent in the US. They're probably making bank off it.
How many people does it take to circumcise, I wonder? Several, I bet, and each needs to be paid for, so they're all taking a slice off the top...

:o
Nonsense! All it takes is one person with a good set of teeth.
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RoseHeart

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Re: Your national healthcare system
« Reply #28 on: September 25, 2016, 01:37:20 pm »

I'm Canadian!

Um, I actually have almost no idea how my healthcare system works.  Even though that is where I'm employed... 

Its mostly free?  And if you have HIV then in British Columbia you'll probably get the highest quality care in the world.

Cool. I actually found out US has a free mothod.

There are sometimes free clinics where doctors and nurses will go volunteer for a couple hours once a week. I went to one yesterday and had my leg checked out. They're very limited on supplies and they almost thought they weren't going to be able to give me a cold pack which they recommended I use but they happen to scrounge one up.

I went over and bought a crutch for $5. Value Village.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2016, 01:43:52 pm by roseheart »
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Caz

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Re: Your national healthcare system
« Reply #29 on: September 25, 2016, 04:07:08 pm »

I am surprised no one brought up the death panels in the UK. Basically people who decide who lives and who dies based on whether they believe they are a valuable asset to society.

Which to my knowledge flat out don't exist :P

But the USA sure thought it did.

I'm reminded of that article posted in an American newspaper saying that if Stephen Hawking had to rely on the NHS then he'd be dead a long time ago... then Hawking reminded them that he was British...


Edit:

So, Scotland here, no problem with the healthcare service really. Prescriptions and treatment are free here. Tbh the main thing that is a shambles is mental health care, I know people that were at the end of their rope and were on 6-month waiting lists to even get some CBT etc. This country really doesn't do well with mental health at all tbh, the common attitudes are appalling.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2016, 04:12:24 pm by Caz »
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