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[gimli]

So, I am playing with this game for months, its a masterpiece. Now I have no problem with the ASCII graphics, however I gotta admit, that 2d tiles would be much better, and a graphical interface also. I know many people who like the game but refuse to play it because its too hard to play with ASCII symbols. Now we have some basic support for creature tiles. I plan to make a decent gfx pack, once all tiles will be supported. [Creatures, items, trees, water, fire etc. etc.]

Toady, when do you plan to expand the engine so that the players like me can start to work on tile gfx? Ive just read the future of the fortress, but I havent seen anything regarding this. Maybe this is low priority still? [Of course I am thrilled about the upcoming Army ARC]

[ January 19, 2007: Message edited by: gimli ]

[Syreal]

I could definitely be wrong, but I don't think Toady wants any outside help. (He has said this about mods, but I'm not sure about art.)

Part of the rogue-like tradition is the use of almost all of the keys on the keyboard. If DF started to use, say, a mouse and a GUI (Graphical User Interface) and HUD (Heads-up Display), people would hesitate to call it a rogue-like, but I do believe it would  be a much more attractive and user-friendly game.

I think that if graphics are implemented, it will be later on. The focus of the game is on gameplay not eye-candy like so many of the commercial games today. That's pretty much separates freeware from commercial ware. Freeware focuses almost directly on a certain group of gamers, with great gameplay and mechanics, while commercial games seek to appease a much larger audience with pretty effects and very 3-D environments.

[gimli]

quote:Originally posted by Syreal:
<STRONG>I could definitely be wrong, but I don't think Toady wants any outside help. (He has said this about mods, but I'm not sure about art.)

Part of the rogue-like tradition is the use of almost all of the keys on the keyboard. If DF started to use, say, a mouse and a GUI (Graphical User Interface) and HUD (Heads-up Display), people would hesitate to call it a rogue-like, but I do believe it would  be a much more attractive and user-friendly game.

I think that if graphics are implemented, it will be later on. The focus of the game is on gameplay not eye-candy like so many of the commercial games today. That's pretty much separates freeware from commercial ware. Freeware focuses almost directly on a certain group of gamers, with great gameplay and mechanics, while commercial games seek to appease a much larger audience with pretty effects and very 3-D environments.</STRONG>

Well I thought that it will happen like the support for creature tiles. Players are able to create 2d tiles to replace the ASCII symbols of the units in the game.
Btw you are absolutely right, a gfx interface and full support of tiles [what can me modded like in Wesnoth for example] would attract much more players. However it is just one point that why do we need that support. You were also correct that the game would be much more user friendly and that is very important imo.
I tell you an example, I was away for 2 weeks in the winter holiday and when I got back and began to play with DF, I forgot some ASCII symbols that what is what. It was confusing and I only missed 2 weeks of playing.

I also understand that Toady is focusing on the gameplay. I totally agree on that, its the most important thing. Thats why I asked about the gfx support. I never said that we need it right now.    
I guess I will need a couple of weeks/months to create all the tiles, so lets say if Toady plans to code the gfx in like 5 months, I will start to work on the tiles in like 2 months. Of course I should just start to work on it now even, but I tend to wait, so that I will be done by most of the work when I can test it. Its more frustrating to make them now and wait months for a playtest.

[ January 19, 2007: Message edited by: gimli ]

[Toady One]

I'm not really sure.  There are a lot of longer, more technical things that need to be done, and most can be done before any of the others without causing much harm.  For this next cycle, I wanted to try something fun, and it was about time for the world to seem less static.  Once I get through with these, I can add more "fun" elements, helper elements like burrows, or play with the presentation.  I can't really predict what it'll be.  Once the basic armies are in, one or the other might feel more pressing.  I have a lot of dev notes, and some things need to be done before others, but I don't have a timetable.

[axus]

How about a Microsoft Office 2007 interface?  The backend could be done in an MS Access Database, fortress information would come out as Excel spreadsheets, interaction with caravans and other races could be done in Outlook.  The game itself would be ASCII inside Microsoft Word, though I think it supports tables of pictures too.

[gimli]

quote:Originally posted by Toady One:
<STRONG>I'm not really sure.  There are a lot of longer, more technical things that need to be done, and most can be done before any of the others without causing much harm.  For this next cycle, I wanted to try something fun, and it was about time for the world to seem less static.  Once I get through with these, I can add more "fun" elements, helper elements like burrows, or play with the presentation.  I can't really predict what it'll be.  Once the basic armies are in, one or the other might feel more pressing.  I have a lot of dev notes, and some things need to be done before others, but I don't have a timetable.</STRONG>

Thanks for the input Toady. It doesnt matter that when will you have the time to add the full gfx support of tiles, there are much more important things to do first. I knew this when I've made this thread. Patience is a virtue.    

Btw I think that a basic tile gfx like this would be perfect for DF as a start. [I plan to make tiles like this first, and enchant it later on]

These screenshots are from IVAN a roguelike game. You can have a basic idea that how the gfx looks like in the game, even though there arent too many things visible on these screenies.

[ January 20, 2007: Message edited by: gimli ]

[Syreal]

Ah, Iter Vehemens Ad Necum. A very good game. Those tiles are a great goal to shoot for. There are also some really cool effects in IVAN, like the fire on flaming swords or the blood dripping off your face after you eat a corpse  .

IVAN has the whole liquid application to weapons thing. You can put poison (or even water!) on your weapons, and blood automatically drips off your weapon after you kill some baddies. The combat is pretty good compared to most rogue-likes, but I definitely like DF's better.

[Sucker Punch]

Honestly, unless the graphics were up to that standard, I probably would stick with ASCII.

Which is wierd, because I absolutely detest ASCII and this is the only ASCII type game I've ever enjoyed.

Playing recently, a unicorn was killed by the river, and blood stained the shores and flowed down it.   For some reason, seeing that made me fall in love with the style.

[Soulwynd]

IVAN's character tiles are great. I really like to see the animation and how you can see different hair colors and clothes.

But...

I tried a few tiles for DF and I still like it more with ye olde rogue-like 'graphics'. I think that for me, I'd either go with text or 3D, either full or isometric like diablo or falcon's eye.

[gimli]

quote:Originally posted by Soulwynd:
<STRONG>IVAN's character tiles are great. I really like to see the animation and how you can see different hair colors and clothes.

But...

I tried a few tiles for DF and I still like it more with ye olde rogue-like 'graphics'. I think that for me, I'd either go with text or 3D, either full or isometric like diablo or falcon's eye.</STRONG>

Hehe, I guess we are all very subjective about this. Personally I LOVE 2d tile graphics in RPG/strategy games. Also guys don't forget, it is possible to make isometric 2d gfx as well! Best example is the Avernum serie. It could be done for DF also, when we can make all the tiles we want. [However it would be harder to draw/edit those kind of images]

[Slartibartfast]

Errrrr.... Isn't Diablo isometric 2d sprites?

[gimli]

quote:Originally posted by Slartibartfast:
<STRONG>Errrrr.... Isn't Diablo isometric 2d sprites?</STRONG>

I think it is.

[Soulwynd]

Well, isometric is a way of projecting 3D shapes into a 2D plane. Any isometric game is a 2D game, even from the programming point of view but still, it's a way of showing 3D objects.

[gimli]

quote:Originally posted by Soulwynd:
<STRONG>Well, isometric is a way of projecting 3D shapes into a 2D plane. Any isometric game is a 2D game, even from the programming point of view but still, it's a way of showing 3D objects.</STRONG>

Yep, however making all the tiles in isometric/2d for DF...would be hellish hard. Also I see no problebs with the 2d top-down style. There are many older/new games with that kind of gfx and its neat imo.

[ January 21, 2007: Message edited by: gimli ]

[Syreal]

There would have to be a lot of code for isometric graphics, especially something as complicated as DF with Diablo visuals. My vote would go towards Falcon's Eye/IVAN graphics. This would maintain a rogue-like feel, and would be a crap load less coding than isometric.