Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Akoto]

Hi all,

Wondering if someone can guide me through the technical process of creating an efficient garbage disposal, particularly for non-dwarf corpses.

I have a fortress which was founded in deep natural caverns, so space is at a bit of a premium. I had a dump zone not far outside, near where the pasture is, and a stockpile for corpses further away. For some reason, two corpses went into that dump by the entrance and I absolutely can't seem to get them moved. The butcher won't do anything with them, the crafts workshop won't use the skeletons. It has been a while since I've played, so it's a bit of a frustration to not remember the tricks of the trade!

It'd be great if I had some way of moving those corpses, but more than that, great if I had a way of disposing of unwanted monster corpses and other rubbish for good -- something better than just dumping them in the open cavern space outside of the fort. The miasma coming from the dump with those corpses ends up covering the pasture, and any dwarf going through the farmlands risks passing through it!

Ah, the woes of learning things over again. I'd like to become a noble with the next dwarven liaison visit, but I doubt they'll appreciate a smelly reception.

[wierd]

Make a small room, with a single door.

On the far wall, across from the door, create a raising bridge that when lowered, covers the whole floor.

Link it to a lever. Raise the bridge.

Define a refuse pile on the floor the bridge will lower down onto when lowered.

Let the dwarves deposit refuse there. When it is full, lock the door to the room.

Pull the bridge activation lever. 

You will find that any item on the floor underneath where the bridge lowers will be erased from existence.

This is called an "Atom Smasher" by the community.  Many consider it to be "cheaty", because it can be used to destroy many kinds of invaders, as long as they are smaller than say, a horse. Very large creatures will deconstruct the bridge instead.

[Killgoth]

If you have access to any magma tubes, you can dump things into them and they will disappear either through vaporization or falling off the map.

[PatrikLundell]

Note that sapient corpse handling has changed as of 0.42.X. Previously only dwarves (including undead dwarves) were hauled to the top level corpse stockpile. Now all sapient corpses (and parts thereof) are hauled to the corpse stockpile, except for corpses of undead former sapients which go to the refuse stockpile (where all but dwarves were sent previously).
Nothing in the corpse stockpile can be butchered or used for crafting even if butchered "naturally", while eligible stuff in the refuse stockpile can be used, including "naturally" butchered bones from undead dwarven invaders. The old rules regarding butchering still apply, though, so you still cannot butcher undead former sapient corpses, nor various other critters marked as unbutcherable.

The corpse stockpile does not have any additional sub divisions or parameters, so your noble fallen dwarves will end up there side by side with the corpses of despicable invaders. You'll probably want to bury your dwarves (and other citizens), so automatically incinerating or atom smashing all corpses is probably not a good idea, but dumping corpses down a chute using a minecart quantum stockpile with a stair to recover corpses for burial, and then either an atom smashing or magma incinerating manually operated mechanism can be recommended. The reason for the chute is to limit miasma when you're busy hauling corpses from an invasion, although you'll probably get miasma from the feeder stockpile at times as well (which is another reason this whole setup should be in a separate room, apart from blocking corpses from the view of passers by to limit their horror).

[Infinityforce]

Try building walls around miasma-producing piles. And maybe a (retractable) ceiling if refuse comes from above.
IIRC miasma does not pass through diagonal gaps, so maybe digging out a room with a diagonal entrance will still allow dwarves to pass but not miasma?
Atom-smasher sounds more infinitely more dwarfy and efficient though. Gotta love that fps.
I personally think a dug-out chute is a great idea, if only for the fact that you can throw down any goblins/elves/humans etc. who have displeased you down there. They also make great target practice as your marksdwarves rain bolts from above on them, and when they die, they're already in the pile

As for butchery, IIRC your butcher's workshop has to be quite very close to the corpse pile to register the corpses.
Building a workshop right next to your corpse pile should do the trick.

Also, dumping rotting waste in an open space is rarely a good idea. Sooner or later in the course of expansion you will probably have to deal with it. Creating a dedicated room (whether constructed or dug out) with a diagonal access, or a disposal chute (into MAGMA?!) is a good idea. Using a lowering bridge to splat unwanted waste into nothingness is even better.

p.s. it's fun to watch magma vaporise stuff

[Fleeting Frames]

You can probably deal it with by putting a magma in after the fact. But the main problem with atomsmashing corpses and engraving slabs as necessary are dwarven caravans - can rise as ghosts, can't engrave. So burial is only option.

[PatrikLundell]

And I think you ought to give every civilized creature you can a proper burial, hence stairs to recover the bodies and a manual atom smasher lever. Stairs will harm using the corpse disposal as a target practice pit, though, although the broken pitting logic means it's probably a bad idea anyway.

As for a butchery close to the corpse stockpile allowing you to butcher sapients: this is the first I hear of something like this. A butchery can automatically schedule the butchery of a the body of a non sapient creature outside of a REFUSE stockpile if the body is close by (something like 22 tiles), but has no problem scheduling non sapient corpses in refuse stockpiles anywhere (in one 0.40.X fortress I thought I made a smart move to set up a butchery in a cavern to have it close to a bunch of bodies I wanted to butcher, only to have the buggers haul stuff from the topside refuse stockpile for butchery there instead of in the regular butchery. That's manager level logic for you...

[Sanctume]

This is my usual garbage chute.

z:0 (optional) surface, channel to expose to light, then constructed floor.
z-1 1-tile diagonal garbage zone channel here. dig stairs at least 2 tiles away from garbage zone.
z-2 (pit is 1z deep)
z-3 (pit is 2z deep)
z-4 (pit is 3z deep) optional climb proof: channel down and smooth walls on z-5.
z-5 (pit is 4z deep) stone layer, no constructed wall, naturally smooth makes it climb proof from bottom.
z-6 (pit is 5z deep) stone layer, do not dig pit landing right away; after smoothing walls on z-5, dig ramp up so there is open space on z-5. 
Remove the ramp and then build 2x1 bridge over pit landing, and link a lever to make atom smasher.

[Findulidas]

Many consider it to be "cheaty"

It is an exploit.

I used to make my own underground river through diverging the river into tunnels I made myself which had fortifications on the corners of the map. It flushed stuff outside the map. Wasnt worth it but I liked it.

[Fleeting Frames]

Oh yeah, it may not be able to deal with overflow too well, but what you can do to dispose of unwanted garbage without manual dumping is taking advantage of the fact that "store item in vehicle" is low priority, thus hopefully allowing you to pull all the unbutcherable remains, scales, feathers and too tiny keas to eat.

Regarding magma dumping designs, here is one I've used before:

Lower level, ramps visible (D=door, W=wall, S = lowest friction track stop set to dump south):
            WW
╔ ▲WDW▲▲
▲W▲▲ S D
╚ ▲DW .

Ramps hidden:
            WW
╔ ╞WDW║╝
╚W║╗ S D
╚ ╝DW .

Upper level (⎕ = minecart set to push west whenever you want)

    W  W
 ▼ ▲ . ▲▼▼⎕W

Ramps hidden:
    W  W
 ▼ ╚ . ╚▼▼⎕W

Double diagonal movement ensures the magma mist can't spread, no matter how much you dump at once.

'course, this doesn't work for magma-safe corpses or furniture.

[Werdna]

Many consider it to be "cheaty"

It is an exploit.

I used to make my own underground river through diverging the river into tunnels I made myself which had fortifications on the corners of the map. It flushed stuff outside the map. Wasnt worth it but I liked it.

How is exploiting game physics to "disappear" items off an arbitrary screen edge any less of an exploit than an atom smasher?     That's a cool idea, btw, but let's chill a little bit about throwing the word 'exploit' around when he already described it as cheaty.  Just a SP game after all...

To continue Weird's suggestion, I prefer using a garbage dump zone instead of a refuse pile.  This gives you active control over what you smash (as opposed to a refuse pile's limited range of items accepted, some of which might be useful).  It also keeps dwarves, cats, etc out of the smasher room which you can completely wall off once the bridge has been linked to the lever. 

To do a garbage zone smasher, add stairs or ramp to give your dwarves access to the z level above the smasher, where you define the dump zone over the smasher room.  Then use d-b-d to mass-designate the bodies for dumping, or whatever else you want to dump like goblin clothing.  Use k and then 'd' if you want to individually designate specific items to be dumped.

Re: magma dumping - make sure you have an extra Z level between your dwarves and the magma.  Unless you prefer the !!fun!! that can result from magma mist splashing your dwarves...

[Akoto]

Hi all,

I appreciate the explanations of the atom smasher and the lava disposal method, among other ideas. I do believe I'll be implementing them! However, I'm not certain of how I'd use them to resolve the present issue. I just can't seem to get those two corpses near the entrance moved, and wouldn't know how to move everything else into an atom smasher room or a lava pit floor-opening room (or whatever other procedure we use).

I've created this crude screenshot to hopefully show the situation ....

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The two unmovable corpses in that pile are a cave crawler and a unicorn. There is plenty of space for them in my corpse stockpiles, both in the screenshot and up the ramps nearby. Is there a way to manually move items and corpses somewhere, like an atom smasher or lava drop off room?

[Fleeting Frames]

Hm, right. First, you need to make sure the corpses are unforbidden and not tasked already.

Dump zone is just target place to dump, it doesn't keep them there. However, whatever is dumped gets forbidden automatically on dropoff, thus becoming unmovable.

If they're unforbidden, then they might be tasked. Forbid them, let the game run a bit, then unforbid them (and if necessary, do a new garbage dump zone elsewhere and then designate them for dumping).

Other possible but more annoying workarounds:

Using water, either via bucket brigade or by screw pump, to move them elsewhere.

Putting no-item stockpile on top of them, then digging a ramp underneath to drop them beneath.

@Werdna: If you're dumping manually, then you don't need extra z-levels to avoid geting hit (though iirc mist/smoke/miasma/dust can rise up to 7z) if you just dump through a diagonal.

[Salmeuk]

This must be a classic case of outside refuse hauling not being enabled.

Try pressing 'o' -->'r' --> 'o'. You should now see "Dwarves gather refuse from outside" in the "Current refuse orders" menu.

Hopefully this solves your issue, since I'm not to sure what else could be the problem.

[wierd]

forbidden flag on corpses can prevent hauling as well.

this looks like it is in the caverns though, with those colors. how a unicorn got down there i dont even, but would explain the cave crawler.

if this is the caverns, then outside refuse hauling shouldnt be a problem. (cavern counts as inside) forbidden is more likely. it gets set automatically after dumping.